Will the Magic System be shown the door?

[Henry]

Do wizard players really get off on such austere resource management?

Is Vancian resource management really that sacred?

My answer would be "yes," but I'm not the norm at all. I can see what you're saying about long-term health of the game, but my beef with it is that this long-term solution is possibly likely to drive me away as a recurring customer. Even with your Grim Tales magic system, you can cast any spell you know as often as you want, but you DEFINTELY pay a huge price - one that can't be fixed in 1 minute of taking a breather. I wouldn't mind the simple-complex-exotic type system, but being able to refresh your big guns all the time seems to be where WotC is heading.

I could really ask, "is kicking butt non-stop in-game that essential to maintaining excitement in an RPG?" All the world really is a nail, when you have a hammer, a shoulder-mounted hammer-launcher, and hammers built into your boots. That's what having constantly-renewing resources taken to its conclusion really means to me.

 

[PhantomNarrator]

I'm still in love with the "Vancian" system. Per encounter is not my cup of tea, and though I like systems like Book of 9 swords, I still can't shake the feeling of the whole paradigm moving to a more "wuxia" or super-powered system, away from the roots of the game.

Put me in this camp also. Much of the balance of the Vancian system is that it forces you to use forethought in selecting your spells. And spells are not "forgotten" - they are recharged, as it takes effort to call down the magical power and hold it in one's mind.

Besides, plenty of 3rd party companies offer variant spell systems, and even the Unearthed Arcana has some.

 

[GlassJaw]

I could really ask, "is kicking butt non-stop in-game that essential to maintaining excitement in an RPG?" All the world really is a nail, when you have a hammer, a shoulder-mounted hammer-launcher, and hammers built into your boots. That's what having constantly-renewing resources taken to its conclusion really means to me.

It depends what audience/customer-base you are trying to reach.

If you are trying to reach the younger, MMO-bred, MySpace user, then a resounding yes would be my answer.

 

[hong]

It depends what audience/customer-base you are trying to reach.

If you are trying to reach the younger, MMO-bred, MySpace user, then a resounding yes would be my answer.

Or even the older, not-MMO-using, not-MySpace-using, gamer.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Certainly we've all noticed that WotC is playing with a lot of new subsystems based on "per encounter" rather than "per day" paradigms, and I think that's likely to be a big part of 4E's design philosophy.

God willing.

I can't stand the assumed "4 encounters a day" silliness.

 

[James Heard]

Or even the older, not-MMO-using, not-MySpace-using, gamer.

Yup. I'm going gray and I'm definitely pro-buttkicking. You're in combat, why not have something fun and interesting to do besides bemoan the fact that you've picked the wrong spell payload or wasted them on the last encounter or can't afford to actively participate in the current encounter because you've got the notion that the next one might require more effort? That "sitting-on-one's-hands" type activity might be interesting tactically, but it doesn't change the fact that my participation level just dropped from "actively engaged" directly into "Tell me when combat is over, I think I'll go take a crap while other people do stuff."

Not fun.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Can someone give me an example of a reserve feat or tell me which WOTC product introduced them?

They're from Complete Mage. An example is Acidic Splatter. So long as the caster has an acid spell of 2nd level or higher ready to cast he can use an orb of acid as a ranged touch attack. This does 1d6 damage per level of the spell.

All of them are similar. So long as the character has a spell of a certain type/level available he can use a subpar magical ability all day long, very similar to the warlock. It means that the caster can always do something useful.

 

[Corinth]

See those spell lists? Most of them can, for all intents and purposes, be slashed down to "Frostbolt (Rank (X))" and slapped with varying Casting and Recharge timers to scale with their effects, with each rank after the first acting as a prerequisite for the next one. The teleport-style effects can also be linked in a chain and split up to require attunement to a specific location--not teleport, but rather teleport: Silverymoon and always to a specific point at that location--following the example of the revisions to polymorph spells.

Cutting down the magic in the game to something far more managable isn't that hard.

 

[Baby Samurai]

It means that the caster can always do something useful.

Instead of becoming a commoner with a crossbow…

 

[Ravellion]

What about reverse spell points? Instead of depleting spell points, with the caster no longer being able to cast when they've all been used up, add up "spell fatigue points".

Some spells could add more points, and you could install penalties for having high "spell fatigue points", like a spell failure chance, that would increase all the way to 100% if someone is at 10x his "spell fatigue comfort zone". Perhaps also a chance for CON damage if he would be really pushing it (say, beyond twice his comfort zone).

Otherwise, just let the caster cast any spell in his repertoire.