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Will you make transsexual Elves canon in your games ?

Zardnaar

Legend
Except in this case, as I understand it, the gendershifting is literally a blessing from the god, not an innate ability.

Still don't like it and I don't really like the reincarnation fluff either. Corellion is a war god and I kinda like this a bit more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demihuman_Deities

vs this
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Corellon

The 2nd one when I 1st saw it all those years ago did not even recognise it as CL, DD Elf god smacking down an Orc god in the Eye. its Corellon.

Its a style thing I prefer a classical marble statue and Leonardo/Michaelangelo over say Picasso.

The last WotC fluff I used was the Fiendish Codex I and II from 3.5 and the flow on stuff from i in Savage Tide AP the Queen of Succubus whose name eludes me atm.
 
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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Its a style thing I prefer a classical marble statue and Leonardo/Michaelangelo over say Picasso.

It’s funny you should mention that, because historically, those white marble statues would actually have been covered in brightly colored paint.
true-colors-of-greek-statues-4.jpg
 

Assuming they’re binary, sure, but there’s a lot more to the gender spectrum than cis man, cis woman, trans man, and trans woman. A genderfluid person is still trans. A bigender person is trans, even when they are in a gender state that coincides with their assigned gender.
I haven't seen "transgender" used to refer to nonbinary people before. Not saying you're wrong, of course, just explaining my own usage.

It is definitely interesting to think about. To draw a parallel to another fictional universe for a moment, one of the things I loved in Destiny’s lore (I know, I know...) was the way the Krill (a species that eventually became the enemies known as the Hive) treated gender. Their species had a 10-year life cycle, and were capable of multiple different metamorphoses after 5 years, with the specific metamorphosis depending on certain external factors like if they ate Mother Jelly (and Mothers could actually live longer than 10 years). All Krill larvae are referred to with “she/her” pronouns, as were Mothers, but Knights and Kings were referred to by “he/him.” The Lore went into the backstory of one of the series major villains, who started out as a Krill larva , and is referred to as “she” in the Lore until the point in her backstory where she takes on the King morph, from which point on he is referred to as “he.” Now, I would absolutely consider that a gender system, and it does contain an element of social class (though admittedly not economic class, and it also contains a bilological element.) I would say that if Aurash (this character’s original name) had identified as the Krill’s equivalent of male, or Auryx (the villain’s adult name, chosen after taking on the King morph) had identified as their equivalent of female, I would consider them trans. Interestingly, later on Auryx acquires a McGuffin that gives him crazy space magic and he changes his name to Oryx, marking it as a transformation metaphorically equivalent to his earlier physical metamorphosis from larva to King. If he had at that point started using she/her pronouns, I would have considered him trans as well. Shame Bungie didn’t take advantage of the opportunity.
But the Krill presumably aren't speaking English. The pronoun usage is being projected onto them by Anglophone humans, both in-universe and by us in audience. How can we tell, without reference to perhaps-misleadingly-familiar words, in what terms the Krill themselves conceptualize what's going on?

Anyway, my point is, I would consider trans-ness a matter of having an identity that lies outside of what one’s society dictates their gender “should be,” by whatever definition that society has for gender.
This definition seems to have the curious consequence that in cultures with robust norms creating a place for trans people, trans-ness ceases to exist. If elven society says to those with the Blessing, "We're not going to tell you that you 'should be' a man or a woman, because under the circumstances that would be really dumb", are they still trans? Are they perhaps trans-to-us, because we're still viewing them through the lens of our own culture, while not being trans-to-them?

At any rate, fascinating stuff. Thank you for an engaging and respectful discussion!
:)
 

Sadras

Legend
So technically elves with this blessing can, with a properly controlled environment for the preservation of sperm, impregnate themselves.
 
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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Still don't like it and I don't really like the reincarnation fluff either. Corellion is a war god...

That’s a pretty narrow reading of Corellon. Besides warfare, he’s also Creator of the Elves, and the elven god of magic, music, arts, crafts, and poetry.

Besides, if you think female war gods can’t kick butt, Athena would like to discuss this with you over there in that narrow, poorly lit alley over there...
 

Zardnaar

Legend
It’s funny you should mention that, because historically, those white marble statues would actually have been covered in brightly colored paint.
true-colors-of-greek-statues-4.jpg

I don't mind bright colours I prefer the statues without though. I also like the Egyptian art, Greek pottery and the Persian carvings.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
That’s a pretty narrow reading of Corellon. Besides warfare, he’s also Creator of the Elves, and the elven god of magic, music, arts, crafts, and poetry.

Besides, if you think female war gods can’t kick butt, Athena would like to discuss this with you over there in that narrow, poorly lit alley over there...
I'm perfectly fine with female war gods. Hell I invented one for a player in 2E as she wanted an amazon/Xena type PC.

Kitiara over Laura as well. I also use Vanya as my war deity she in an immortal from Mystara similar to Red Knight from FR.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
I'll give you this: the 3E Corellon art may have been going for "androgynous" but it ended up at "terminally ill". But maybe it's just bad art? There was a lot of that going around in those days.

Yeah it's mostly just bad. It's like D&D art went on holiday from 2000 to 2014.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I'd like to make a humble attempt to bridge worlds a bit here, as I see valid views on both "sides" of this debate, and also some rather nasty and unnecessary flinging that might obfuscate underlying agreement and unity. So a few things...

If Blessing of Gender makes a transgender person happy and feel acknowledged, awesome. I don't see BoG as inherenty a "trans thing," but it certainly seems to have "trans appeal." Furthermore, if I was DMing a player--transgender or not--who wanted to play a transgender character, I'd have no problem with it, unless it in some way was thematically opposed to the campaign (although it is hard for me to imagine a scenario where that would be the case).

That said, I do have an issue with the idea of any type of D&D canon being forced upon my own gaming table. Thankfully that isn't happening and couldn't happen. But what is happening a bit in this thread is some assuming that those who don't want this rule at their table are doing so out of some kind of bigotry or transphobia. There are reasons that a particular DM might not want to allow it that have nothing to do with trans-phobia. It might be entirely thematic, aesthetic, and/or pragmatic. By way of example, I generally don't allow dragonborn or warforged or shardminds, et al, but it isn't because I am "dragonbornphobic" or an "anti-shardmindist"...I just don't like those races on an aesthetic level, and they generally haven't fit in with the flavor and themes of my campaign settings.

On the other hand, I do think there's a subtle distinction being made by some that is worth repeating: there's a problem with linking gender identity with "real world issues" or "culture wars" that we use D&D as an escape from. Do not trans people also have the same right to escape from real world issues into fantasy, while bringing their own identity with them? I generally prefer to play hetero male characters, so have no issue with someone wanting to play a character that aligns with their own sexual preference and/or gender identification.

I do understand wanting to keep the game table clear of culture wars, but I also imagine that there are many trans folk who also want to escape from controversies around their gender identity, which to them is just the naturalness of who they are. We just need to broaden our umbrella of what "us" means, so that "we" can all play together in the fields of imagination.

Are we not united in that desire for "healthy escapism," in the Tolkienian sense of the phrase? (see his "On Fairy Stories"). Don't we all love to play make-believe? And is it not equally valid for a trans person to be able to do so in a way that they feel comfortable with and enjoy?

So while I don't like some of the assumptions that are being flung towards those who don't want to incorporate this in their game for whatever reason, at the very same time I don't like the idea of negating an avenue whereby someone of a marginalized group gets to play a character that aligns or appeals to their own identity, whatever that may be. Maybe we can throw the bathwater of both extremes out and retain the baby of our shared love of fantasy imagination and healthy escapism?
 

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