Wish

[Emperor Valerian]

Oh, I've told my players that if they wish for something too powerful (told them to use their common sense on this) that it would get perverted some way. Now, if its a very powerful but very productive wish, it might not necessarily get perverted in a bad way.

But "I wish there was an army here" when you're going in to fight the BBEG might cause an army that would be aligned against you.

They've been fairly warned, and the player that has the spellcasting character understood and agreed with me.

 

[Starglim]

Would you allow a wish to:

Gain a feat?

I agree with the earlier suggestion that it should allow swapping feats around. I'd allow wish to grant a feat for a limited duration, say 1 hour/level, or to emulate a feat for the purpose of fulfilling a prerequisite to create a magic item. I might allow it to fulfil any one prerequisite of a prestige class that the character otherwise does not qualify for.

Gain a bonus to a skill?
Gain skill ranks?

I'd allow a permanent +2 inherent bonus to a skill, or a +10 bonus with a limited duration. No gaining of real skill ranks.

What other meta-game things would you allow a wish to grant (apart from the above three and ability score increases)?

Create magic items up to the cost limit for created items.

Apply a polymorph permanently, or rather instantaneously. In fact, it would be fair to cast any spell of say 6th level or lower, that normally would be permanent, for instantaneous effect instead.

Learn and scribe one spell.

 

[Zappo]

Y'know, I've never really understood the great joy some DMs (at least on message boards; I've never actually seen a level 17+ PC wizard in a game I've played in) seem to take in perverting Wishes. They're 9th-level spells with a heavy XP cost, and are typically cast by Wizards (because a Sorcerer would never learn Wish) with a 19+ Int score. Nitpicking Wish wording to find loopholes doesn't seem like it would be a fun thing to do...

Word. The way I rule it, wishes granted by an unintelligent force (ie, by casting a wish spell or using a ring of wishes) are treated as such. This doesn't mean that they will be interpreted literally - in fact, the wish will try to be as close as possible to the caster's true intentions. The spell draws on what the caster wishes, not what he asks for.

If the wish doesn't have enough power to do what asked ("I wish for a million gold pieces"), it will try to use some less powerful effect which gets as close as possible to the caster's intentions. Again, this isn't done with malice; the wish will try to find a path of "least resistance" through reality. In the example, it may teleport the money from somewhere else, or create less money than what was asked. I would discuss this with the player beforehand, as the wish "wants" to approximate the character's intentions.

Wish granted by intelligent forces (ie, a djinni or an intelligent ring of wishes) are another thing. You are not casting the wish, the other guy is. The wish won't do what you want, it'll do what the other guy wants. Often, some cosmic law demands that the other guy uses the magic to do what you ask for. What you ask for, not what you wish.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I was going to say no-no-no, until I saw BiggusGeekus - that's what I'd do - allow an item similar in power to 70-80% of the xp cost that granted them what they wanted...



As for wishes and miracles:

If it comes from 'within' - i.e. wizard - they'll work in exactly the way the caster intended. No-one is going to deliberately screw themselves over. If it twists, it'd be in a way beneficial to the caster.

If it comes from 'without' it varies: If a cleric is asking their god or the wish is being granted by a friendly NPC, then it will work as asked, as long as the content doesn't offend the being granting the wish.

If you're dealing with darker powers then things will nearly always twist around. i.e. Don't force genies into service. Don't expect wishes granted by demon lords to work out well.

If wishes are too powerful, then I'm going along Zappo's line of thinking. The power will either work partially or in some unanticipated way. How bad this is depends on how you acquired the wish.

 

[RSKennan]

Y'know, I've never really understood the great joy some DMs (at least on message boards; I've never actually seen a level 17+ PC wizard in a game I've played in) seem to take in perverting Wishes. They're 9th-level spells with a heavy XP cost, and are typically cast by Wizards (because a Sorcerer would never learn Wish) with a 19+ Int score. Nitpicking Wish wording to find loopholes doesn't seem like it would be a fun thing to do...

In a 25th level epic campaign I played in, I had a sorcerer who used wish and limited wish for just about everything other than combat (mainly to reproduce other spells). That was a lot of fun, and the moment that I came to understand the joy of munching out once in a while. Prior to that experience, I hated powergaming, but that was coming from the stance of a career DM who had never been on the other side of the screen for more than a session or two.

Wish is a great spell.

Edit: admittedly this was a short campaign by intent, and some metagame elements might have crept in with casual payment of the XP costs, but it was fun.

 

[Jupp]

I never allow a wish to change any kind of player statistics. No attribute changes or feat changes et al. The characters do not know that they have stats so how could they wish for a change there? Sounds more than meta-gamey to me.

A wish could alter the game world to some extent and in a limited way. You could change the fate and destiny of someone else to some extent. You could alter the outcome of an event that will happen in the future. You could reach a mystic place you would not have been access to otherwise. All this, yes, I would allow this after some thinking. But chaninging numbers is out of the question.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I never allow a wish to change any kind of player statistics. No attribute changes or feat changes et al. The characters do not know that they have stats so how could they wish for a change there? Sounds more than meta-gamey to me.

A wish could alter the game world to some extent and in a limited way. You could change the fate and destiny of someone else to some extent. You could alter the outcome of an event that will happen in the future. You could reach a mystic place you would not have been access to otherwise. All this, yes, I would allow this after some thinking. But chaninging numbers is out of the question.

I can see where you're coming from with that... although I feel the game stats do represent 'real world' ideas. For example, what would you do to a player whose wish was - 'I wish I was stronger?'...

 

[Jolly Giant]

Would you allow a wish to:

Gain a feat?
Gain a bonus to a skill?
Gain skill ranks?

What other meta-game things would you allow a wish to grant (apart from the above three and ability score increases)?

I've allowed wish to grant feat-like effects sometimes. One PC wished for Iron Will, but got a +2 inherit bonus to Will saves. He got the effect, in other words, but he didn't have the feat he really wanted (to qualify for a PrC).

Bonus to skill? Sure, but not a very big one. +3 would be max; the equivalent of Skill Focus.

Skill ranks? No!

As for perverting wishes, which some posters touched upon, I've never yet felt it right to pervert a wish a PC cast himself or from a scroll. Mostly the PCs are terrified of perverted wishes and don't get too greedy. Once or twice I've felt they've pushed it too far, though. In those cases I've simply let them cast the spell and pay the XP, but to no effect.

Wishes granted to the PCs by others are a different story, though. Unless the PCs really trust the caster, they better be very careful how they formulate their wish...

 

[Jolly Giant]

I never allow a wish to change any kind of player statistics. No attribute changes or feat changes et al. The characters do not know that they have stats so how could they wish for a change there? Sounds more than meta-gamey to me.

I'll agree it would be odd for a wizard character to say "I wish for a +1 inherit bonus to Int", but "I wish my great intellect was even greater" isn't metagaming, IMO. Referring to the Iron Will example in my own post (above), the character said "I wish I had greater will power". As DM, I knew he wanted Iron Will to get into a PrC, but I didn't want to make it that easy for him. I gave him a +2 to Will saves, but not the actual feat.

... You could change the fate and destiny of someone else to some extent...

So you allow them to make changes for others but not for themself? Sounds a bit odd, IMHO.

 

[thundershot]

Where's Erik Mona? This seriously needs a small article in Dragon. We haven't had a "Wish" article since 1st edition, and it's changed a lot since then....

Weird.. paizo's site isn't working...

Still...


Chris