With a resounding dull thud, health care is not struck down

[amerigoV]

As one on the more Conservative side of politics, I really do not understand the endgame of the suit. If they would have won, it does not invalidate the law, it just screws over a bunch of people that were just trying to use the exchanges as they were advertised. Its not like these people are going to be angry that the Democrats are terrible at drafting the law (due to how it was passed, the law was riddled with bad drafting). They are going to be pissed at the people that drove the suit. And its not like the Republicans have a viable replacement sitting there to fix it. The only quick fix would have been to pass a correction to the existing law (maybe pass a temporary one - but the subsidy to Drs for medicare (Doc Fix) has been "temporary" since like 1997). So now you either have a bunch of angry voters and a nasty issue or you force your party to vote FOR the very thing you do not like.

Very spite/nosian.

 

[Umbran]

As one on the more Conservative side of politics, I really do not understand the endgame of the suit.

Keep the core of the party engaged/convinced that they mean business, hold to principles and all that?

 

[Kramodlog]

Part of the people who are discontent with Obama and Democrats aren't acting rationally. It is hate for hate and it is more important to block/destroy something associated with him than propose something else or negociate some sort of compromise. What was the saying? If Obama is for it Republicans are against it?

There is a bit of nihilism to this. During the last guvernment shut down, Michele Bachmann said that some Republicans had never been so happy. All that was happening was that the Federal guvernment wasn't paying employees and beneficiaries, while there were no negociations to find a solution to the crisis. That is nihilism. Acting just for the pleasure of it. There were no strategies beyond that. Ultimately the Reps caved, the status quo was reinstated and Reps lost face and support. But they were happy for a while.

The lawsuit seems to borrow from that state of mind.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What was the saying? If Obama is for it Republicans are against it?

Very much so. Most of my buddies are very conservative, so political discussions, while rare, can be...interesting. Most, however, are not ideologues.

But if engaging the hard core right, if you point out that the ACA's roots came from a conservative think tank and its principles were first enacted by a conservative governor- pretty successfully, too- and you'll get dirty looks and dismissive handwaves. I can't tell you how many of my father's patients have talked about their dislike of the ACA...even as it helps them get in the door and get treated by my father.

Since Newt's days, there has been this attitude in the GOP of repeal/destroy legislation they don't like, as opposed to tweaking things to make them work better. The harm they are willing to do in those efforts reminds me of the psychopaths who kill their significant others, claiming "if I can't have you, nobody can!"

 

[Kramodlog]

Very much so. Most of my buddies are very conservative, so political discussions, while rare, can be...interesting. Most, however, are not ideologues.

But if engaging the hard core right, if you point out that the ACA's roots came from a conservative think tank and its principles were first enacted by a conservative governor- pretty successfully, too- and you'll get dirty looks and dismissive handwaves. I can't tell you how many of my father's patients have talked about their dislike of the ACA...even as it helps them get in the door and get treated by my father.

Since Newt's days, there has been this attitude in the GOP of repeal/destroy legislation they don't like, as opposed to tweaking things to make them work better. The harm they are willing to do in those efforts reminds me of the psychopaths who kill their significant others, claiming "if I can't have you, nobody can!"

It is funny. From my perspective, except for some provisions (e.g. pre-existing conditions), the ACA is pretty terrible and if it is socialism does it terribly (giving money to private insurance compagnies is socialism now?). It is pretty much a market driven solution to a real problem (health care isn't a product like a car that you can shop around and decide you do not need, who shops around a heart attack?). And lack of health care can be bad for the economy has it can affect productivity.

 

[Bullgrit]

(health care isn't a product like a car that you can shop around and decide you do not need, who shops around a heart attack?).

I've seen some really good arguments that we *should* shop around for our doctors and hospitals, but we don't because we've all gotten accustomed to insurance "handling" it. I know I've shopped around for doctors outside of emergency situations. I shopped around for my vasectomy a couple years ago. (Bad V, Good V)

I am currently shopping around for an ENT/audiologist.

Bullgrit

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It is funny. From my perspective, except for some provisions (e.g. pre-existing conditions), the ACA is pretty terrible and if it is socialism does it terribly (giving money to private insurance compagnies is socialism now?). It is pretty much a market driven solution to a real problem (health care isn't a product like a car that you can shop around and decide you do not need, who shops around a heart attack?). And lack of health care can be bad for the economy has it can affect productivity.

The ACA ain't great. It is classic sausage legislation, and rushed at that.

But considering the USA has been kicking this issue down the road since the 1980s at the very least, it isn't a bad start. It is at least successful in addressing certain key issues, like rising costs and the "pre-existing condition" problem.

Again, the methods by which it does so are far from ideal, and I expect there will be at least one more major rethink and piece of healthcare reform in the next couple of decades. Part of the problem is that some of the most sensible and cost-effective solutions run counter to current federal & state law, and raise difficult constitutional & ethical issues. And that's before we even get to political/economic ideology and vested financial interests.

 

[Umbran]

I've seen some really good arguments that we *should* shop around for our doctors and hospitals, but we don't because we've all gotten accustomed to insurance "handling" it.

It is a bit more complicated than that.

For one thing, if you shop around, you are going to be tempted to shop around by procedure. Much as you go to a particular grocery because it has the cheapest steaks, you'll go to a particular medical service provider because they have the cheapest vasectomy.

However, one of the biggest issues in overall health care is *continuity of care*. If you have a good doctor, you gain a great deal for always going to the same doctor, who can know your history and learn more about you. But that doesn't show up on a price list, and humans are notoriously *bad* at including long-term factors into their assessments. Jumping form doctor to doctor for care means you lose continuity - nobody gets to have the Big Picture of you.

In the grand scale, the basic issue is simple: We use an "insurance" funding model for what is actually a *maintenance* issue. The insurance funding model works well when the issue you're funding has a major impact, but is a rare occurrence that can't realistically be prevented by maintenance. Broken bones? Clear candidate for insurance. Health maintenance to steer you clear of heart disease or diabetes, or help you manage long term if you get them? Not really applicable.

 

[trappedslider]

"Judicial Bitchslap" needs to be the name of a string quartet that does covers of punk tunes.

#reallygoodnameforaband and due to an XKCD .tumbler.com

 

[Bullgrit]

Much as you go to a particular grocery because it has the cheapest steaks, you'll go to a particular medical service provider because they have the cheapest vasectomy.

For the record: I *did not* go for the cheapest vasectomy. Either time. Just felt the need to say this.

Bullgrit