Wizard vs. Sorcerer: Which one would you rather play? Which would you rather be?

[QuietBrowser]

Both times, Wizard.

I won't lie, there is a kernel of an interesting idea in sorcerers... but, mechanically, only one edition has done them decently: 4th edition. 3e and 5e have both made them into subpar, knock-off, watered down wizards, and it's not helped by the fact that I find the Wild Mage archetype to be... distasteful on a personal level, and prone to being annoying on a mechanical.

Wizar is just more rewarding and more interesting, from a backstory perspective and from a gameplay perspective.

 

[Azzy]

I've got that list of spells with no material components ready, if anybody wants it. I haven't typed it here yet because there's a lot of them and I want to see if anybody's interested. I have included Sorcerer spells from the PH, Cleric spells from the PH (for those using Divine Soul), and both from XGTE, separated by source and category. If you want it, say so!

Not sure how this is terribly relevant to this thread, but it sounds kind of useful. So I say go ahead and please share.

 

[Fauchard1520]

Of course, D&D is not designed at all around what people really want to be.

I've got a buddy who insists that, in a realistic D&D world, everyone would grab at least one level of a casting class for ease of living cantrips / 1st level spells. Prestidigitation along would make life a lot more interesting.

 

[Elderbrain]

To see the relevance, refer to my post at the top of page 5 of this thread, Azzy, where I explain why I'd rather be a Sorcerer because of the Metamagic classs feature Subtle Spell, which lets you canst without using Somatic and Verbal components. Hence, my list of Sorcerer spells with no Material conponents, meaning that if you use Subtle Spell with those spells, you can basically think the spell into existence... anyway, the spell lists follow as requested; one with the Sorcerer spells from the PHB, one with the Sorcerer spells from XGTE, and one with the Cleric spells from the PHB and XGTE, available if you are using a Divine Soul Sorcerer (since there are only two elgible spells from XGTE - Toll the Dead and Life Transference - I have made only one list for Cleric spells, since if you're using Divine Soul, you clearly own XGTE.) Note that two Cleric spells on that list - Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds - can be picked up as bonus spells if you select Evil or Good as your source for Divine Soul spells.

 

[Elderbrain]

O.K. First list, Sorcerer spells from the PHB.

Cantrips: Acid Splash, Blade Ward, Chill Touch, Fire Bolt, Mage Hand, Poison Spray, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp, True Strike

1st Level: Burning Hands, Charm Person, Detect Magic, Disguise Self, Expeditious Retreat, Fog Cloud, Magic Missile, Ray of Sickness, Shield, Thunderwave

2nd: Alter Self, Blindness/Deafness, Blur, Crown of Madness, Knock, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Scorching Ray

3rd: Blink, Counterspell, Daylight, Dispel Magic, Protection from Energy

4th: Blight, Dimension Door, Dominate Beast, Greater Invisibility

5th: Animate Objects, Cloudkill, Dominate Person, Seeming, Telekinesis

6th: Arcane Gate, Eyebite

7th: Etherealness, Finger of Death, Fire Storm, Prismatic Spray, Teleport

8th Dominate Monster, Incendiary Cloud, Power Word Stun

9th: Meteor Swarm, Power Word Kill, Time Stop, Wish

 

[Elderbrain]

Second list, Sorcerer spells from XGTE.

Cantrips: Control Flames, Create Bonfire, Frostbite, Gust, Mold Earth, Shape Water, Thunderclap

1st Level: Absorb Elements, Catapult, Chaos Bolt, Earth Tremor

2nd: Earthbind, Mind Spike, Pyrotechnics, Shadow blade, Warding Wind

3rd: Enemies Abound, Thunder Step

4th: Charm Monster, Sickening Radiance, Storm Sphere

5th: Control Winds, Enervation, Far Step, Immolation, Synaptic Static

6th: Investiture of Flame, Investiture of Ice, Investiture of Stone, Investiture of Wind, Mental Prison, Scatter

7th: Crown of Stars, Power word Pain

8th: (none)

9th: Psychic Scream

 

[Elderbrain]

Third and final list, for the Divine Soul Sorcerer from XGTE, which can select Cleric spells.

Cantrips: Guidance, Sacred Flame, Spare the Dying, Thaumaturgy, Toll the Dead

1st Level: Command, Cure Wounds, Detect Evil and Good, Guiding Bolt, Healing Word, Inflict Wounds, Purify Food and Drink

2nd: Calm Emotions, Find Traps, Lesser Restoration, Prayer of Healing, Protection from Poison, Silence, Spiritual Weapon, Zone of Truth

3rd: Beacon of Hope, Bestow Curse, Create Food and Water, Life Transference, Mass Healing Word, Meld into Stone, Remove Curse

4th: Death Ward

5th: Contagion, Geas, Mass Cure Wounds

6th: Blade Barrier, Harm, Heal, Planar Ally, Word of Recall

7th: Conjure Celestial, Divine Word

8th: (none)

9th: Mass Heal

 

[Elderbrain]

Please note that the point of this is to have a Sorcerer who is never helpless because he/she lacks Material components or is bound and gagged, stripped of all equipment, etc. You may still wish to select certain spells that do not meet those criterion, i.e. Plane Shift. It's up to you to decide which spells you really need.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

For me the wizard symbolizes the power by study and investigation, the sorcerer the gifted innated talent, like the one by artists, and warlock by astuteness, negotation, pacts and special links.

I would like a sorcerer subclass with incarnum soumelds to get monster traits (special senses, wings, natural armor or weapons..), and a warlock subclass with class features linked with magic of pact with vestiges. My own version of warlock can craft single-use-only magic item(potions, talismans, runes, tatoos..) with only with a book of shadows and in his special sanctuary. And I imagine the favored soul like a spontaneus divine spellcaster with powers working like a mixture of monster traits and incarnum soumelds. In my homebrew settins there is a special hate-love relation among the favored souls, the psionic ardents and the rest of divine spellcasters.

I miss the warmage class, but he was only a walking flamethrower with light amour. Maybe the future for this class could be a hybrid, a mixture of sorcerer and the swordsage class from 3.5 Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.

 

[gyor]

For me the wizard symbolizes the power by study and investigation, the sorcerer the gifted innated talent, like the one by artists, and warlock by astuteness, negotation, pacts and special links.

I would like a sorcerer subclass with incarnum soumelds to get monster traits (special senses, wings, natural armor or weapons..), and a warlock subclass with class features linked with magic of pact with vestiges. My own version of warlock can craft single-use-only magic item(potions, talismans, runes, tatoos..) with only with a book of shadows and in his special sanctuary. And I imagine the favored soul like a spontaneus divine spellcaster with powers working like a mixture of monster traits and incarnum soumelds. In my homebrew settins there is a special hate-love relation among the favored souls, the psionic ardents and the rest of divine spellcasters.

I miss the warmage class, but he was only a walking flamethrower with light amour. Maybe the future for this class could be a hybrid, a mixture of sorcerer and the swordsage class from 3.5 Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.

Bards are the artists, a mix of talent with study, as artists are.

Bards are the Artists, Wizards are the Nerds, the Warlocks are the Merchants, and the Sorcerers are the Jocks of the Arcane world.

Wizards focus on intense formulas and require great intellect and education, they are methodical in their research.

Bards use training and observation to build skills that tap into their innate creativity and realize it. And they are interested even in none magical forms of personal expression.

Warlocks find out what an interested party wants and they cut deals with it for power. I can see this mentality making Warlocks the most likely to sell their services as mercs.

Sorcerers have good genes, there idea of training is exercising their muscles, which in this case is the spark of magic in their souls. It's why I can see most of a Sorcerer's training consisting of using their magic as much as possible, even on frivilious stuff, and a good diet, with the occasional observing of others techniques.