wizards and sorcerers

[vince33]

ok ive been thinking that all classes are equal in difrent ways but wat about the sorcerer being equal with the wizard. because sorcerers cast more and dont need to prepare

but wizards

the get hords of spells
get bouness feats
casts almost as much as a sorcerer
uses meta magic feats properly

im having second thoughts about the sorcerer

wat makes the sorcerer equal or am i just missing somthing about em?

 

[Christian]

Spontaneous casting is an ability that's often underrated. A sorcerer can always cast any spell he knows, up to the highest level that he has any slots remaining. A wizard who didn't prepare a certain spell this morning, or only prepared it once & already cast it, is up the proverbial creek without a material component if she finds she needs that spell. That's really a much more significant advantage for the sorcerer than the few extra spell slots he gets ...

That said, I think that the general (but certainly not universal) opinion is that sorcerers are slightly underpowered compared to wizards. Not enormously, though ...

 

[Nifft]

A Sorcerer is tactically flexible.
A Wizard is strategically flexible.

In a battle-heavy game, tactical > strategic.
Especially surprise battles.
Especially several per day.

If you don't face many surprise battles -- if you can choose when, where & whom you will fight -- the Wizard is grossly overpowered.

-- N

 

[vince33]

like wat if a level 30 wizard was to duel a level 30 sorcerer

who would win

 

[Jdvn1]

like wat if a level 30 wizard was to duel a level 30 sorcerer

who would win

Probably the Wizard. In one battle, spells per day don't help you that much.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Most likely, the level 30 wizard. At high levels - and I mean 12+, not necessarily epic - every D&D party becomes more strategically-oriented, with access to divination magics which can prepare them for the upcoming battle and other magics which allow them to avoid conflict until a time and place of their choosing. If a wizard knows what is coming she can prepare for that specific fight. A sorcerer is always stuck with the spells he knows.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Which ever player was a bigger munchkin .

But seriously the sorcerer would probably win if the battle were unexpected but if they had say 1 day to prepare the wizard would have a tremendous advantage (paticuarly if he knew what spells the sorcerer had own his spell list so he could devise the best plan).

 

[Liquidsabre]

Even if the battle was a surprise a Wizard with access to those rarified spells would have a minimum of one contingency spell (or more with craft contingency spell feat) that would teleport them to safety (a defensively designed and protected sanctum of course) or a time stop for example. Where the Wizard then proceeds to prepare to take on this upstart Sorcerer by gathering items followed by buffing and attacking if at all possible. At those levels, it becomes near impossible to *not* be prepared as mobility is quite high for characters of this level to the point where conflicts generally only occur at the choosing of both opposing sides. That being the case, the Sorcerer just doesn't stand much of a chance against a Wizard I'd think.

That is, unless the Sorcerer is a counter-caster. So the sorcerer counters every spell the wizard has got until he runs out in which case the Sorcerer will be at a bit of an advantage at that point.

 

[Jack Simth]

Well, it depends (of course). At 30, that Sorceror could very well have Master Staff. If the DM permits hiring out magic item creation for custom items, that Sorceror could effectively have every spell on his list, a few of them at a time (although, in theory (read: if he has the cash, and the DM allows it), he could hire a few dozen high-level wizards to enchant a staff with EVERY spell on the default Sor/Wiz list at 2 charges apiece and have them all at once). Of course, nothing stops the Wizard from doing this as well to swap out prepared spells for others.

Likewise, it depends on how the fight starts - two random spellcasters meeting in an open field and simultaneously deciding they are going to kill the other? The Sorceror's flexibility will likely win the day (Need all the 9th slots to be your offensive spell today? No Problem, for a Sorceror). Two spellcasters that know each other well meeting for a duel in three days time? The Wizard's tactical planning ability will likely carry the day. With a surprise attack (Scry, Buff, Teleport) whoever attacks is most likely to win.

Likewise, at 30, that Sorceror could have Epic spells (as could the wizard) that do nasty things, and in a battle of purely epic spells, neither really has an advantage over the other (other than the Wiz's greater feat rate).

Also at 30, that Sorceror could have prestige classes that boost flexibility - Archmage comes to mind, and Elemental Mastery, but I'm sure there are many other good candidates - to multiply the effective spell list of the sorceror. The Wiz can also do this, but benefits less from altered spells as the Wiz's spell list will be more varied anyway.

It depends. A lot. As Aust Diamondew said, the bigger munchkin has better odds.

 

[JoeBlank]

As so many have said, sometimes the wizard wins, sometimes the sorcerer, probably depending on the circumstances. I think that is what they call "balance."

However, my advice is not to worry about this fabled balance and instead worry about having fun. Now, if your character is grossly underpowered then you will probably have less of a good time gaming (but not always, see the recent thread on taking a 25-point-buy character in a 32-point-buy game). But as long as you are in the same range as the others, you can have fun.

For this reason, I prefer the sorcerer. I don't want to spend my time at the game table reading through spells and pondering over which to prepare each day. With a sorcerer, I spend that time away from the game session, sometimes agonizing over which spells to take, but once the decision is made and it is time to game I just play my character. Of course, others may enjoy the tactics at the game table, scrying or investigating and then rereading all your spells, maybe even trying to acquire new spells for a particular situation.

Play what you like, and have fun doing it.