Wizards vs. Clerics

[Tristissima]

A clarification

I'm not looking for the power class. I fell in love with 3rd edition mostly because of how balanced all the classes are (i.e. one experience table)- I work with new players a lot, and they need to feel that they have a class that is no less powerful than the others. Besides that, a balanced party is a happy party. Equality breeds comaraderie. Also, it's a lot better when you can feel that your character is contributing to the party as much as everyone else is.

 

[Tjaden]

Its simple, in a fight between a 15th level wizard and a 15th level cleric, the wizard will win, almost always. I know this because I played a wizard in a game and fought a cleric of the same level as I was, and I creamed him with one spell while he attempted a measly cone of cold on me...Wizards just have stronger spells...it just takes them longer to become more powerful than the cleric. But once they are, say bye bye to the cleric.

 

[Oni]

Its simple, in a fight between a 15th level wizard and a 15th level cleric, the wizard will win, almost always. I know this because I played a wizard in a game and fought a cleric of the same level as I was, and I creamed him with one spell while he attempted a measly cone of cold on me...Wizards just have stronger spells...it just takes them longer to become more powerful than the cleric. But once they are, say bye bye to the cleric.

A cleric of that level has a lot better choices at his disposal and should have had them prepared. I would say you were most fortunate that the encounter went as it did. Destruction could have just as easily have destroyed you in one fell sweep. Spell Resistance and would have had trouble touching him. Silence, a second level cleric spell, could very well have shut you down. The point is that clerics aren't pushovers.

 

[LostSoul]

I creamed him with one spell while he attempted a measly cone of cold on me...

He probably should have cast Destruction. Even if you made the save, you are still looking at 10d6 damage.

 

[Victim]

Its simple, in a fight between a 15th level wizard and a 15th level cleric, the wizard will win, almost always. I know this because I played a wizard in a game and fought a cleric of the same level as I was, and I creamed him with one spell while he attempted a measly cone of cold on me...Wizards just have stronger spells...it just takes them longer to become more powerful than the cleric. But once they are, say bye bye to the cleric.

That's funny. I would have rather fought the 13th level vampire wizard solo with my 10th level cleric, because I wouldn't have enough spells to protect everyone else. 3 people in the party died in the fight and the others would have been almost helpless without my character. I'd be happy with 15 levels each, and give him the vampire template for free - and my cleric could only turn feeble undead anyway.

A cleric would have a much better chance at one shot killing wizard than vice versa. The instant death saves are Fort and Will and a cleric should be more resistant for each.

 

[robaustin]

While Clerics have more spells, you have to remember they also usually are the primary healers in a party, hence when you play a Cleric, you have to choose your spells wisely so as not to knock all your spell slots down. You also have to play a Cleric so as ot to be the "vend-o-heal" either. IT's a tricky balance.

--*Rob

 

[Wee Jas]

Heal? I barely ever heal. I like to slap things around with Slay Living, Harm, Destruction and Blindness.

The main advantage I see to wizards is that they can effect large numbers of things with damage spells while I have to focus on one or 2 things at a time. Having the magic domain helps because I can use wands of Fireball and Lightningbolt but I'm still no wizard. They have Chain Lightning that has CRAZY range not to mention metamagic feats.

 

[Arnwyn]

Well, IME clerics are superior to wizards. That's just what we discovered in our group, though. (No rule tweaks have been done.)

And really, now. What would have a better chance at general survivability? A party of 4 wizards, or a party of 4 clerics?

 

[Allanon]

Well if you consider everything said here it's quite obvious..
They're balanced (Darn that WotC for playtesting ). And ofcourse you can go on giving more scenario's in which one is better, but as long as noone can prove that one is better in every scenario all the time I stand by my point that their balanced

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Giving the feel that any of the classes are balanced is one of most challenging parts of dming in the 1st place. It's tough to throw the right number of encoutners so spellcasters resourses are depleated, enough fights so the fighter types look big and strong, enough altenate challenges so skill absed characters get to shine etc.

On a pure balance scale I think the cleric is a bit too good, d8 hp, all the armor, knows every spell on list(yeah wizarda have access to a huge array, but is it actually in tehir spellbook), domain spells, domian special abilties, turn undead, medium bab, 2 good saves(a absurdly huge bennie IMO). But honestly I think they both have issues on the everyone feels useful balance scale.

Clerics can easily buff up to be = to fighters at fighting, have utility spells to solve a wide array of skill problems, and still do their normal cleric duties, and throw down offensive spells as well. The wiz/sor usually can't effectively buff to fight it out like a fighter, but can scout darn good, can open doors, safely trigger traps, gather info, make friends, and absically step on virtually every classes toes while still having Big Bang Mr. Wizard potential.