Pathfinder 1E Wizkids should take the Pathfinder 1.0 ruleset and publish their own RPG.

[Parmandur]

Again I am reminded of the days of 3e, and again I solemnly wonder whether or not I should just leave D&D entirely if this is the shape of things to come.

This has already outlasted the d20 boom and bust cycle, and seems to be picking up steam.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Again I am reminded of the days of 3e, and again I solemnly wonder whether or not I should just leave D&D entirely if this is the shape of things to come.

There are other game systems out there. Why keep playing something you hate.

 

[Aldarc]

Based on the postings on these forums to begin with people want more 5e material. They want it on other forums. They want it on Twitter. So no. Your highly restricted individual viewpoint is not at all reflective of the gaming market. Not even close.

And people are clamoring for McDonald's hamburgers and Starbucks coffee across the world. We should build more McDonalds and Starbucks and hail them as the culmination of human culinary achievements.

There are other game systems out there. Why keep playing something you hate.

I do not hate 5e. I hate its monopolizing effect on the hobby. I hate that this is the only thing that some people want to play without consideration, knowledge, or even experience of other systems and yet treat 5e as if it were the One-True-Way to TTRPG.

 

[Xenonnonex]

And people are clamoring for McDonald's hamburgers and Starbucks coffee across the world. We should build more McDonalds and Starbucks and hail them as the culmination of human culinary achievements.

This is completely irrelevant.

I do not hate 5e. I hate its monopolizing effect on the hobby. I hate that this is the only thing that some people want to play without consideration, knowledge, or even experience of other systems and yet treat 5e as if it were the One-True-Way to TTRPG.

So play other RPGs. Teach people other RPGs. Do not care what the mass market is doing. How do you know that 5e is not the thing that gives people the most joy and fun?

Unless what you really want to do is complain.

 

[Retreater]

I do not hate 5e. I hate its monopolizing effect on the hobby. I hate that this is the only thing that some people want to play without consideration, knowledge, or even experience of other systems and yet treat 5e as if it were the One-True-Way to TTRPG.

I'm definitely not a 5e apologist, and 5e isn't the system I'm running most frequently these days (looking at Call of Cthulhu, Dungeon World, and Savage Worlds). So my experience is that 5e, while being a juggernaut in many gaming circles, hasn't completely monopolized the hobby.

I would say that during the 3.x/d20 era, that system came closer to fully monopolizing the hobby. There were d20 variants of every genre (d20 anime, d20 supers, d20 Star Wars, d20 Call of Cthulhu, d20 Conan, d20 Modern, d20 Future, etc).

Today there are so many games. The rising tide of 5e, social media exposure, Kickstarter, and other outlets have increased the number of players so there is a wealth of other systems available.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm definitely not a 5e apologist, and 5e isn't the system I'm running most frequently these days (looking at Call of Cthulhu, Dungeon World, and Savage Worlds). So my experience is that 5e, while being a juggernaut in many gaming circles, hasn't completely monopolized the hobby.

I would say that during the 3.x/d20 era, that system came closer to fully monopolizing the hobby. There were d20 variants of every genre (d20 anime, d20 supers, d20 Star Wars, d20 Call of Cthulhu, d20 Conan, d20 Modern, d20 Future, etc).

Today there are so many games. The rising tide of 5e, social media exposure, Kickstarter, and other outlets have increased the number of players so there is a wealth of other systems available.

Yeah, it's probably never been better for non-D&D RPGs as a whole. Sure, tons of 5E material out there, because that's where the biggest audience is, but finding an audience is easier than ever.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I'm definitely not a 5e apologist, and 5e isn't the system I'm running most frequently these days (looking at Call of Cthulhu, Dungeon World, and Savage Worlds). So my experience is that 5e, while being a juggernaut in many gaming circles, hasn't completely monopolized the hobby.

I would say that during the 3.x/d20 era, that system came closer to fully monopolizing the hobby. There were d20 variants of every genre (d20 anime, d20 supers, d20 Star Wars, d20 Call of Cthulhu, d20 Conan, d20 Modern, d20 Future, etc).

Today there are so many games. The rising tide of 5e, social media exposure, Kickstarter, and other outlets have increased the number of players so there is a wealth of other systems available.

Yeah, that need for more 5e material is actually motivated by the sparseness of official releases. People are actually wanting more 5e. Not because of Wizards' prior need to mass saturate and dominate the market.

And other RPGs are indeed on the rise.

 

[darjr]

Call of Cthulhu is ranked 8665 and a bestseller on Amazon.

 

[Aldarc]

This is completely irrelevant.

I'm sorry that the analogy is lost on you.

So play other RPGs. Teach people other RPGs. Do not care what the mass market is doing.

I try to do so, but the people who seem to be advocating that every company and freelancer should write things for 5e and homogenize the market is only exacerbating the problem.

How do you know that 5e is not the thing that gives people the must joy and fun?

How do you know that it is?

I would say that during the 3.x/d20 era, that system came closer to fully monopolizing the hobby. There were d20 variants of every genre (d20 anime, d20 supers, d20 Star Wars, d20 Call of Cthulhu, d20 Conan, d20 Modern, d20 Future, etc).

I don't know. I'm seeing a similar effect in the market. You can, by the way, easily find 5e compatible books on DriveThruRPG for running 5e Modern, 5e Future, 5e Cyberpunk, or a 5e Supers. There is a 5e compatible book by Sandy Peterson for the Cthulhu Mythos.

Or people are calling for Paizo to abandon their Pathfinder lines to write for 5e. On the Carnival Row thread, some guy said that they would not look at it because it's not 5e. (Not because it was Cypher System, but because it wasn't 5e.) And while not Star Wars or Conan, Lord of the Rings has a 5e adaptation, and we learned this year that a 5e adaptation for Stargate is in the works. Star Wars is tied up in FFG's licensing, but do you not think that 5e a conversion would not be up for consideration otherwise?

So while we are not necessarily seeing one-for-one correspondences in the trend, I hope you can understand or be sympathetic to my worry about 5e's effect on the creative diversity in the market.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm sorry that the analogy is lost on you.

I try to do so, but the people who seem to be advocating that every company and freelancer should write things for 5e and homogenize the market is only exacerbating the problem.

How do you know that it is?

I don't know. I'm seeing a similar effect in the market. You can, by the way, easily find 5e compatible books on DriveThruRPG for running 5e Modern, 5e Future, 5e Cyberpunk, or a 5e Supers. There is a 5e compatible book by Sandy Peterson for the Cthulhu Mythos.

Or people are calling for Paizo to abandon their Pathfinder lines to write for 5e. On the Carnival Row thread, some guy said that they would not look at it because it's not 5e. (Not because it was Cypher System, but because it wasn't 5e.) And while not Star Wars or Conan, Lord of the Rings has a 5e adaptation, and we learned this year that a 5e adaptation for Stargate is in the works. Star Wars is tied up in FFG's licensing, but do you not think that 5e a conversion would not be up for consideration otherwise?

So while we are not necessarily seeing one-for-one correspondences in the trend, I hope you can understand or be sympathetic to my worry about 5e's effect on the creative diversity in the market.

How is adaptation of 5E necessarily a threat to creative diversity? I can point to plenty of non-5E games out there just as easily, such as (DCC, Burning Wheel, Powered by the Apocalypse, FATE, Vampire, Star Trek Adventures, Star Wars) that are doing fine. 5E is not a threat to that, y any means.