D&D 5E WizKids Yawning Portal new set

[teitan]

Uh-huh. But that means that it's completely legitimate to criticise it. Especially if it's being presented as something functional. I think one underlying anxiety is that, potentially, D&D could turn into some kind of luxury brand over the next couple of decades (hilariously as that is from a historical perspective). I don't think it's an entirely unreasonable concern. Thankfully for now this stuff is mostly third-party, and hopefully WotC doesn't start getting too many ideas.

Yep that’s one thing we’ve always been proud of with D&D is that it is inexpensive dollar value entertainment and these days it seems to be that people are now equating D&D with the like of Warhammer or other luxury style games where it’s about people with disposable incomes. It’s becoming ok to put 15 pages of usable content in a $50 book. It’s ok to charge 300 for a tarrasque with a questionable paint job. Why? Because it’s D&D. This is one more product and their is a growing elitist attitude around D&D that I find disturbing. Most of it around Wizkids products. Are they needed? Nah. But other communities have shown that once products like these start to become the norm that an attitude begins to develop of haves and have nots. Examples include Masterpiece Transformers collectors calling fans of the normal lines “poors” and Masters of the Universe Classics Collectors always telling people that 300 bucks for a $20 figure is a good deal and mocking any new product that isn’t their own. Premium products are great and should be available and the two lines I mentioned here are nowhere near as overpriced (at original retail) as Wizkids with the cheap plastic and poor paint applications. You’d think with NECA backing that it would be a little better.

 

[Dausuul]

If you don't see the issue here I can't but laugh...

I have to admit, I don't really see the issue. Wizards and WizKids are engaged in the time-honored strategy of selling luxury versions of a product at inflated prices, while the regular version remains affordable to less-affluent or less-enthusiastic customers.

It's a perfectly sensible approach. You don't want to price regular customers out of the market, but you also have a handful of customers with money to burn--you want to score some of that excess cash if you can. It's actually beneficial to regular customers, because the high profit margin on the luxury product can fund R&D or operating overhead.

But other communities have shown that once products like these start to become the norm that an attitude begins to develop of haves and have nots. Examples include Masterpiece Transformers collectors calling fans of the normal lines “poors” and Masters of the Universe Classics Collectors always telling people that 300 bucks for a $20 figure is a good deal and mocking any new product that isn’t their own.

Heaven forbid we should develop a problem with gatekeeping in D&D. Our community has been so blessedly free of that until now.

Seriously, though, the vast majority of D&D players never even know this stuff exists. On top of that, I think the cooperative nature of the game encourages more of a "show off your generosity" mentality. I have a gigantic collection of minis; I don't think anyone else in my group owns a single one. I suppose I could hoard all those minis to myself and sneer at the others for using dice and bottle caps, but that would just mean most of the minis would sit in the drawer gathering dust. Instead everyone uses my minis and I get to be the Minis Guy.

 

[Burnside]

I have no objection to luxury D&D products. I own three Beadle & Grimm sets, and professionally I run site-specific "event" D&D experiences with ticket prices generally starting around $99.

I am also not accusing this product of being "unfair" or "a scam" (nor do I think anyone in this thread is).

I'm accusing it of being a bad value. This is a personal judgment on my part yes, because I value D&D stuff on how much practical use I get out of it. The Beadle & Grimm stuff is pricey BUT my players and I will get like two years of regular entertainment value out of one box even if I only use it once - in that context, it's actually a pretty good deal. I'm not into "displaying" D&D stuff, and if I was, this particular thing isn't visually appealing enough. And it's too specific and limited to get a lot of practical use at the table. For context, it costs more than a typical B&G Silver edition adventure.

I also think it's kind of objectively a bad value because of the many ways you can purchase or craft (or a little of both) a very similar product for way less than WizKids is charging for this thing.

I don't think WizKids was rubbing their hands with glee at their evil scheme to rip people off by selling this thing. I just think they arrived at a product which represents a bad value both to me, due to my personal tastes, but also pretty objectively, in comparison to similar products on the market.

 

[Dire Bare]

I just got a marketing email from WizKids with the product page. It's the same link @darjr posted in #1, but I have a feeling a lot of the naysayers didn't actually look at it. Here it is.

Initially, I was under the impression that WizKids had already released a Yawning Portal Tavern playset last year, and that this one was a newer, more premium version of the same thing. I was wrong. This is the only Yawning Portal set released, but the concept changed from early previews.

Originally, the set was to have three floors instead of two, with the floors being printed cardstock. WizKids changed this to two floors, with the flooring being painted plastic. The MSRP seems to have increased from $349.99 to $367.49, an increase of about $18. I'm guessing that's more supply-chain related than due to the slight change in concept. Most of the retail sites I found online are still asking $349.99.

So, what makes this terrain set "premium" and what drives it price?

• Detailed, "premium" paint quality on the terrain (floors, walls), accessories (furniture), and characters
• Lots of furniture and accessories, Durnan character miniature
• LED lighting effects
• LED infinity mirror in the portal
• Modularity, the floor tiles are in multiple, connecting pieces and are reversible with wood on one-side, stone on the other. The floors, walls, and portal are all separate pieces. It also looks like this set is fully compatible with WizKids line of Warlock Tiles for greater expandability and modularity.

While this set certainly won't be for everyone, the Yawning Portal Inn is the centerpiece of three WotC D&D books, both Waterdeep titles, and the titular Tales from the Yawning Portal. It's also long-time classic location within the city of Waterdeep, in the Forgotten Realms setting.

Here is the Polygon review of the set. The review has lots of well-lit and close-up photographs of the paint job and sculpts of the terrain and accessories, although the photos seem to include items from the additional accessory and mini sets. The review does use words like "over-the-top" and "lavish", but is an overall positive review, noting multiple times the detail in the terrain and accessory sculpts.

It's expensive, it's "premium", it's not affordable for all D&D fans, and won't appeal to all D&D fans . . . but I just can't take seriously the complaint that the price is too high for what you get, or that luxury accessories like this are somehow a danger to the affordability of our hobby.

 

[darjr]

 

[TheSword]

I’m actually pretty comfortable being condescending about this one. I’d be a lot happier if actually resembled any of the previous yawning portal incarnations, rather than what is essentially a square box with a hole in the middle. Floors that are about 18 foot each? Have you ever seen a tavern of any kind with ceilings that high!

No kitchen, no pantry, no rooms for serving staff that we can see. there is a pillar directly in front of the stage? It seems to be based on what was a fairly jokey cartoon drawing of the YP which replaced what was actually a fairly interesting useful tavern map.

As a stand in for pretty much any other tavern I can think of it fails abysmally.

The poorly detailed upper floor is essentially in the way, unless you remove it, and if you remove it the tavern looks extremely dull. I suspect the upper floor was put in to make the shape interesting for display purposes.

If you’re going to make a $350 tavern. At least make it a good/interesting/practical one.

To put it in Volo’s terms…

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have to admit, I don't really see the issue. Wizards and WizKids are engaged in the time-honored strategy of selling luxury versions of a product at inflated prices, while the regular version remains affordable to less-affluent or less-enthusiastic customers.

It's a perfectly sensible approach. You don't want to price regular customers out of the market, but you also have a handful of customers with money to burn--you want to score some of that excess cash if you can. It's actually beneficial to regular customers, because the high profit margin on the luxury product can fund R&D or operating overhead.

It always starts that way.

Then ten or twenty years later you see products that are exclusive to the luxury tier, especially if the wrong people get into managing things, and the entire product line may start to be viewed as "luxury" and priced accordingly. You can say that's a mistake, and I'd agree, but it's a mistake that has been made before, and companies like GW have been pretty successful in pushing up their prices by simply not selling anything particularly cheap. All the while certain people will loudly and vigorously defend every price increase, find excuses for every dubious product, shrug at stuff being released essentially only as a premium thing, and so on. Not saying you will, but some will. And even when prices have become solidly unreasonable, the same people will say "Wellll, it was always a luxury, no-one needs to game, you can just download the basic set PDF or buy an older edition!" or the like.

Hopefully it doesn't happen, but the more WotC-made "luxury" stuff there is, the more concerned I am. And we're seeing more and more of it.

 

[Jahydin]

You can also build using Warlock Tiles for ~$100 to $175.

How? I did a breakdown earlier and didn't come close to that.

Interested because I really do want a large tavern set.

 

[Jahydin]

Also, does anyone have experience with the WarLock tiles? I've seen some people use them online and it looks really cumbersome and time consuming to put together. I'm hoping after some practice and break-in the process becomes easier and faster.

 

[darjr]

Also, does anyone have experience with the WarLock tiles? I've seen some people use them online and it looks really cumbersome and time consuming to put together. I'm hoping after some practice and break-in the process becomes easier and faster.

I saw a hack where folks used 3d printed clips with ball magnets in them. That looked much easier to deal with, plus they would stick to a metal platform or terrain.

The original clips were VERY DIFFICULT to clip and unclip things with. There were alternate clips you could get by the bag full that helped and I think the kits swtiched to them.

The clip standard is also avaiable to 3d STL designers so you can print your own tiles to integrate with them.

I'm planninng on printing a bunch of compatible tiles but using the magnetic ball and metal plate trick. I wan't to be compatible because I may pick up a piece or few that are neat and/or I can't find a decent STL for, or if this ever gets any cheaper or I win the lottery.