Wood Elf

[xazil]

Perhaps they just adjusted the mix for the Wood Elf so it goes:
+2 Str = -2 Con
+2 Dex = -2 Int

This fits in with the table then.

 

[Shin Okada]

IMHO -2 Con is bad enough for any type of characters. And Dex is often the least important stats for fighter types as there is maximum bonus to AC thing.

IMHO, Half-Orc has better set of abilities. High strength is good for barbarian types. And Half-Orc has no penalty on any of the important abilities for a Barbarian type. So at least, a Half-Orc can be a really good Barbarian.

On the other hand. A wood elf is,

As a Bard .... I don' know. A bard is better to have all the stats at above average level.
As a Barbarian ..... High strength and High dex is good. But con penalty?
As a Cleric .... Don't need Dex bonus. -2 Con is bad.
As a Fighter ..... High strength is good but high dex is not so important. ANd con penalty.
As a Monk .... Same as Ranger.
As a Ranger .... High strength and High Dex is excellent. But low int will remove a skill point and thus not so good for a skill-defendant class. And low con is still bad.
As a Rogue .... High Dex is good. But high Str is not so important. Low Int is really bad. Low Con is still no good, too.
As a Wizard/Sorcerer .... Low con is more problematic for those classes.

I think, when thinking about a race, we should better determine it's ability scores as a set. Just totalling bonuses and penalties is a nonsense.

 

[Sejs]

Whoa, I didn't know until reading this thread that the -2 charisma penalty for wood elves had been removed. The only question I can ask is why?

They've all been going to therapy, so they've been able to get over all those self-image problems that they used to have.

 

[Li Shenron]

Am I missing something or are Wood Elves too good? +2 Str and -2 Int is better than the 1/2 Orc's +2 Str, -2 Int, and -2 Cha; also, you're smelly and no one likes you. Ok, I know this is a minor thing, but do DM's ban or modify Wood Elves to fix this imbalance.

Wood Elves are not too good... you just shouldn't compare them with Half-Orcs, which are weak

 

[Thanee]

It's pretty ironic, seeing that two of them love to play dwarves. A race which, according to many, is the most powerful in the book.

Hehe, yep, while I'm quite positive that most elf variants are clearly superior to the basic high elf, I don't think they are better than the dwarf.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Klaus]

Like I said in another thread, it's the half-orc's -2 Int/Cha that is too harsh. I'd houserule the half-orc to +2 Str/-2 Int. Or better yet, use the half-orc variants I wrote in an article at www.fierydragon.com .

The thing with a racial penalty to Charisma is that, IMHO, it should not be used to reflect a bad attitude or bad looks (mummies have higher Cha!), but rather a racial tendency to revert to "cringing henchman" status (prime examples would include goblins, mongrelmen, myconids, even kobolds).

 

[Scribble]

The thing with a racial penalty to Charisma is that, IMHO, it should not be used to reflect a bad attitude or bad looks (mummies have higher Cha!), but rather a racial tendency to revert to "cringing henchman" status (prime examples would include goblins, mongrelmen, myconids, even kobolds).

I agree with this to a point. In 3e CHA to me tends to represent Looks, Personality, and force of will.

If you look at real people, lack of self esteem tends to create people whom are constantly trying to prove themselves. What I've noticed is that this tends to happen in 2 ways. The person is either constantly trying to "suck up" to those that they perceive as better then them, (Thus the henchman syndrome) or the person is constantly bragging and trying to show how much better then everyone else they are. This is where I see the 1/2 orc.

 

[Darklone]

I hope this wont lead to a charisma debate, but take into account that low charisma has nothing to do with people who are constantly trying to prove themselves.

Charisma decides whether others think they are worthy or not, not how the dude himself acts. He may easily sulk in depressions or be glad to stand back and watch as additional options to your two possibilities.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Am I missing something or are Wood Elves too good? +2 Str and -2 Int is better than the 1/2 Orc's +2 Str, -2 Int, and -2 Cha; also, you're smelly and no one likes you. Ok, I know this is a minor thing, but do DM's ban or modify Wood Elves to fix this imbalance.

+2 Str and -2 Int in addition to the elves standard modifiers. And I think wood elves aren't as smelly as dwarves (who lose their natural armor if they take a bath ;-))

Whoa, I didn't know until reading this thread that the -2 charisma penalty for wood elves had been removed. The only question I can ask is why?

I think they stated that in the wizard boards. One of the designers said they did it just to piss you off

 

[Scribble]

Charisma decides whether others think they are worthy or not, not how the dude himself acts. He may easily sulk in depressions or be glad to stand back and watch as additional options to your two possibilities.

You're free to your own point of view of course but I disagree. I think that idea is taking the stat away from the character and giving it to someone else... What I mean is CHA to me represents your character's ability to define how others see him. And at least in my opinion, that starts with how well you project your self image.

With a high CHA you project an image that's strong and confident. Sure, you may be depressed a lot, or may be a quiet individual that tends not to step up to the front, but when you do speak, you do so with an heir of confidence and conviction that makes people listen.