|Words to Live By: an Alignment thread about Codes of Conduct

[steeldragons]

Note: This thread is basically referring to D&D-based games, but could certainly benefit or be applied to other systems if the info is useful for anyone. But just bare in mind, this is from a D&D perspective though there is no "edition encompassing" D&D banner/label for the thread.

There's been a noticeable amount of traffic, lately, in threads about Alignment, what is or isn't ok for a Paladin or a Druid, etc. etc.

So, I figure, we're a bright buncha people here on ENworld. We should probably be able to come up with some "guidlines" for Codes of Conduct to be followed that DMs and players could use/have in hand to play with and/or start with and tweak for their particular campaign/game/setting.

Helping to, in hope and theory, reduce alignment arguments across the gaming world.

So here are a few that I think work and in some cases have used or at least used certain elements.

First up (probably the most contentious topic), from my own game world
Sample Paladinic Order:

The Redstar Knights.
A militaristic branch of the temple of my world's god of battle skill and guardianship, Celradorn. Lawful Good characters only.

The Redstar Oath/Code:
1. You are the Gold Shield of Celradorn on Orea. Defend those who can not defend themselves and protect your Charge with the might of Celradorn. In these, you stand forever with Honor in the eyes of Celradorn, even unto death.
2. You are the Lightning Lance of Celradorn. Strike with Righteousness and Truth against the forces of Evil.
3. You are the Red Star of Celradorn. Always act toward the Glory of Celradorn as displayed through his temple and servants. (in other words, "follow orders." Both of your superiors in the 'Knights but also of the clerics of Celradorn/temple heirarchy.)
4. In all things, uphold the Order of Law and Justice. In the face of unjust Law, uphold that which is just for Justice is the Law of Celradorn.
5. A Redstar Knight does not dishonor himself or Celradorn by attacking from behind. This is the way of cowards and thieves.
6. As Celradorn, Himself, knows compassion and mercy, a Redstar Knight is obliged to offer the same to a defeated foe, grant it to those who surrender and, if necessary, swiftly end suffering of the fallen.
7. A Redstar Knight does not dishonor himself or Celradorn by soiling his mouth with lies. There can be no Justice without Truth and Justice is the Law of Celradorn.
8. A Redstar Knight must strive to exalt Celradorn in battle, but there is no dishonor in a battle truly fought and fairly lost. (in other words, fighting to the death is not necessary, nor even sanctioned, by the Redstar order. If you're losing, you can retreat with your honor intact. This is not, however, the case if one is in defense of their "Charge." Abandoning whoever/whatever you are assigned to defend -their Charge- is possibly the most heinous thing a Redstar Knight can do. Now, if they are standing their ground and ordered to retreat by a superior -which would include their Charge, presuming it is a person- then they are still following the Code, honor intact, by adhering to tenet #3)
9. Respect and honor is due to any, mortal and divine, who do not serve the forces of evil.
10. A Redstar Knight shall hold no god above Celradorn in his heart but there is no dishonor in offering tribute of thanks to Celradorn's brethren (any other gods of Good alignment).

So there's what I would consider a basic Code of Conduct for a paladin of a LG god in a polytheistic world.

More to come.
--SD

 

[steeldragons]

Whereas paladins are subject to maintaining their Code of Conduct to receive their special "gifts" from their deity, a cleric/priest is no less subject to their deity of choice's "Commandments", if you will.

I do highly encourage DMs to work with their players to flesh out the "religion" side of their clerics, or more broadly their temples/churchs/what have you.

For comparison and contrast, I'll use the priestly caste (clerics, not paladins) of my world's Temple of Celradorn (LG god of battle skill and guardianship).

Though they are collectively referred to as "Shields of Celradorn" the actually temple heirarchy is as follows:
Title of clerics level 1-3: "Squire"
Title of clerics level 4-6: "Shieldman" or "Shieldmaiden"
Title of clerics level 7-9: "Redshield"
Title of clerics level 10+ (of which there are very few in the world): "Highshield"

1. Clerics of Celradorn must be LG (the deity's own alignment), LN or NG
to maintain their "good graces" (keep their spellcasting and turning abilities) with the god.
2. Clerics of Celradorn may wear any armor and must hav/use a shield.
3. Clerics of Celradorn are charged against the use bladed/piercing weapons. Mace, staff, flail, morningstar, cudgel/club or hammer. (this goes for all clerics in my game/world. Uh oh, is my grognard showing? ) Missle weapons, even slings, are considered "dishonorable" and not permitted (slings are permitted for other deities, but not this one). The rationale here is one service of and weilding the Grace and Glory of Celradorn (his spells) should be able to protect and defend and generally incapacitate enemies without such implements/causing undue bloodshed.
3. Clerics of Celradorn are charged, by Commandment, with defending the weak and oppressed and guarding the ways of the Lawful and Good against the forces of Chaos and Evil.
4. Clerics of Celradorn are charged with assisting their followers and Charges in whatever ways they are capable, be it defense/protection, healing/fighting disease, fighting/removing dark magics or "outside" forces.
5. Clerics of Celradorn are charged with, not just guarding against, but the utter destruction of those evil forces/creatures "unnatural" to the world of Orea (undead, demons, devils, evil outsiders, aberrations/abominations, etc.)
6. Clerics of Celradorn are charged with Honoring their superiors (following orders from within the temple heirarchy), Respecting their lessers (within the temple), and Compassion to all (within and without the temple) not in the service of Evil.
7. Clerics of Celradorn shall hold no god above Celradorn in their hearts, but tribute is permitted to any "Good" deity and respect due to all non-evil faiths and their followers. So services rendered/aiding the cause of followers of Sorilorr (god of knowledge, amongst other things, a True Neutral deity), for example, is in no way jeopardizing the cleric's status with his/her deity.
8. Clerics of Celradorn shall not dishonor themselves or Celradorn by speaking lies. There can by no Justice without Truth and Justice is the Law of Celradorn.
9. Clerics are charged with upholding the Lawful and the Good. In the face of unjust law, clerics are to follow what bolsters the Good for the ways of Good are Just and Justice is the Law of Celradorn.

--SD

 

[Desdichado]

I think the basic problem is that alignment is a topic that is subject to a fair bit of personal interpretation. And the paladin's code of conduct have never been spelled out in any splatbook that I'm aware of (there's probably one somewhere out there in 2e-land that I'm not aware of, but as I said; I'm not aware of it.) So the code becomes, basically, just "be really lawful good, which of course is subject to personal interpretation."

Add to that the notion that nobody much likes someone else stepping in and telling them how they should run their character, and how they should interpret their own character's code of behavior, and I think any amount of prescriptive brainstorming on a place like this isn't going to accomplish much of anything in terms of reducing alignment arguments. Because at the end of the day, if I have a notion in my mind about what my paladin character's code of conduct entails (or doesn't) then anyone else getting in my shorts and telling me what they think a paladin should be doing, even my DM, is--quite simply--overstepping his bounds and messing in something that's not really any of his business.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I recall a code written on a thread here earlier where paladins were told "thou shalt be everywhere facing evil" among other things. People loved it. I found it vague. This does, after all, regulate PC behavior in a game.

This is much better.

Note: This thread is basically referring to D&D-based games, but could certainly benefit or be applied to other systems if the info is useful for anyone. But just bare in mind, this is from a D&D perspective though there is no "edition encompassing" D&D banner/label for the thread.

There's been a noticeable amount of traffic, lately, in threads about Alignment, what is or isn't ok for a Paladin or a Druid, etc. etc.

So, I figure, we're a bright buncha people here on ENworld. We should probably be able to come up with some "guidlines" for Codes of Conduct to be followed that DMs and players could use/have in hand to play with and/or start with and tweak for their particular campaign/game/setting.

Helping to, in hope and theory, reduce alignment arguments across the gaming world.

So here are a few that I think work and in some cases have used or at least used certain elements.

First up (probably the most contentious topic), from my own game world
Sample Paladinic Order:

The Redstar Knights.
A militaristic branch of the temple of my world's god of battle skill and guardianship, Celradorn. Lawful Good characters only.

The Redstar Oath/Code:
1. You are the Gold Shield of Celradorn on Orea. Defend those who can not defend themselves and protect your Charge with the might of Celradorn. In these, you stand forever with Honor in the eyes of Celradorn, even unto death.

I like this one. Paladins are supposed to defend the meek.

2. You are the Lightning Lance of Celradorn. Strike with Righteousness and Truth against the forces of Evil.

Way too vague. When do you strike? What if you're busy going after another group of evildoers? What sort of striking? If you "ping" an evil bartender who waters his beer, are you supposed to call the watch? And what can they do without proof? I'm going to assume murdering him is out of the question.

3. You are the Red Star of Celradorn. Always act toward the Glory of Celradorn as displayed through his temple and servants. (in other words, "follow orders." Both of your superiors in the 'Knights but also of the clerics of Celradorn/temple heirarchy.)

I would suggest using the material in the parentheses instead of what you actually have written. Clarity is key here.

4. In all things, uphold the Order of Law and Justice. In the face of unjust Law, uphold that which is just for Justice is the Law of Celradorn.

Hallelujah. A code that doesn't confuse law with order. Paladins have their own code, and it need not match with "civilian" or "secular" codes. Lots of alignment conflicts could have been avoided if only WotC had clearly said something like this.

5. A Redstar Knight does not dishonor himself or Celradorn by attacking from behind. This is the way of cowards and thieves.

This, unfortunately, is vague. This is especially true of editions where there's no facing! Under what circumstances can you use stealth or other such tactics? What about flanking? Or invisibly stabbing an opponent in the face?

6. As Celradorn, Himself, knows compassion and mercy, a Redstar Knight is obliged to offer the same to a defeated foe, grant it to those who surrender and, if necessary, swiftly end suffering of the fallen.

I fully agree with this. A paladin should be accepting surrender and not committing torture. (Of course, this code says nothing about "false surrender", which is right. It's not a real surrender if it's not a real surrender.)

7. A Redstar Knight does not dishonor himself or Celradorn by soiling his mouth with lies. There can be no Justice without Truth and Justice is the Law of Celradorn.

Possibly the king-daddy of paladin code hate. Is there a reason a paladin can't lie to his enemies? If a paladin is discovered by cultists investigating their trove of evil magic items, I sure hope his answers to their questions aren't "..." or "I'm doing an inspection." They'd rather hit a villain in the face than lie to them, and that's also fatal if the villains outnumber them.

A paladin lying to his friends, his order or in a court case is another story entirely. There lying cannot be justified.

Now, I note that these are "paladins of Celradorn" and not necessarily "generic" paladins. But I thought this was supposed to be a code nearly any paladin could follow.

8. A Redstar Knight must strive to exalt Celradorn in battle, but there is no dishonor in a battle truly fought and fairly lost. (in other words, fighting to the death is not necessary, nor even sanctioned, by the Redstar order. If you're losing, you can retreat with your honor intact. This is not, however, the case if one is in defense of their "Charge." Abandoning whoever/whatever you are assigned to defend -their Charge- is possibly the most heinous thing a Redstar Knight can do. Now, if they are standing their ground and ordered to retreat by a superior -which would include their Charge, presuming it is a person- then they are still following the Code, honor intact, by adhering to tenet #3)

I like this one a lot. Paladins don't have to be stupid or "never retreat". Even in cultures that venerated this kind of behavior (Rome and Japan, for instance) that was only a nice theory. So good job. I would recommend adding that section about "protecting their charge" to this tenet.

9. Respect and honor is due to any, mortal and divine, who do not serve the forces of evil.

Yes. Sounds knightly. And unlike knights, paladins have to actually live up to the code.

10. A Redstar Knight shall hold no god above Celradorn in his heart but there is no dishonor in offering tribute of thanks to Celradorn's brethren (any other gods of Good alignment).

So they're not prejudiced. Good

 

[delericho]

Actually, I think the fact that alignment is subject to interpretation and that different people come at it from different angles is a genuinely good thing. It makes alignment fascinating (to me, at least).

That it causes arguments is a side effect of that, but provided it remains civil, I'm actually not convinced that even that is a bad thing.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Actually, I think the fact that alignment is subject to interpretation and that different people come at it from different angles is a genuinely good thing. It makes alignment fascinating (to me, at least).

That it causes arguments is a side effect of that, but provided it remains civil, I'm actually not convinced that even that is a bad thing.

So what you are saying is that people's true alignment in these threads comes out when they start flaming each other over alignment interpretations?

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

[MENTION=92511]steeldragons[/MENTION] I've never actually had a total code of conduct in any of my games, I can see pros and cons to it.

Good thread idea I think, I'm sure a bunch of the posters from the other thread will chime in here too.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Here's some of mine from my old home-brew

Codes of St. Ethelred Defender of the defenseless.
Clerical Codes
As a bearer of the holy shield of St. Ethelred I will always stand in the path of evil, ready to lay down my life so others might live. I will not lay down my life needlessly for such a death is an empty death.
As a bearer of the sword of truth I will seek out evil that intends harm to the weak, meek and powerless.
As a bearer of the sword of justice I will stop those evils that I have uncovered and exact judgement as the law allows.
As a member of the holy order I will observe the high holy days of the mighty one and ever preach his divine grace and protection.

Paladin Code
I will use my sword, my shield, my mind and body in the defense of those that can not or will not defend themselves.
I will never knowingly allow a defenseless soul to stand in peril
I will be on guard against evil actions and will be swift in my retribution
I will lay down my life in defense of the weak, but will not needlessly offer my life in vain.
I will tirelessly seek peaceful resolution first but will not hold back my wrath if that fails.
Should I find an evil being engaging in evil acts, I will do my best to dissuade them of continuing before ending their life.
I will obey the commands of my officers, my priests, my seniors* and my lord.
If my life is to be forfeit, I will make my enemy pay dearly with every drop of blood they spill.
(* this was a clerical campaign title, not older persons in general)

The Paladin's Creed
In all things I shall be true, in speech, manners, thoughts and deeds.
In all things I shall be pure, in speech, manners, thoughts and deeds.
In all things I shall be humble, in speech, manners, thoughts and deeds.
In all things I shall be obedient, in speech, manners, thoughts and deeds.

 

[jonesy]

My problem with these sort of codes is that they are likely to end up being abused by the DM in loopholes which allow for situations where the paladin is 'forced to fall'. Sometimes even without the DM realizing it, because everything that the paladin does ends up having to be compared against the code, retroactively.
"Oh, according to this you can't disobay your superiors. And you were just issued a command which amounts to suicide. Would you like to play a fallen paladin, or roll a new character now?"

And even then these are subject to as much or more interpretation than the simple rule of doing good. Even a deceptively simple concept like mercy depends on what one means by it.

 

[steeldragons]

I think the basic problem is that alignment is a topic that is subject to a fair bit of personal interpretation. And the paladin's code of conduct have never been spelled out in any splatbook that I'm aware of (there's probably one somewhere out there in 2e-land that I'm not aware of, but as I said; I'm not aware of it.) So the code becomes, basically, just "be really lawful good, which of course is subject to personal interpretation."

Precisely. Which is why I advocate sitting down and outlining what exactly your alignment, and more specifically for alignment-restricted characters/the purposes of this thread, your "code" are and mean to the character. Either with or without your DM, but the DM's final acceptance/verdict on such matters really are the final say. They are, after all, the adjudicator of the universe in which you are playing.

Add to that the notion that nobody much likes someone else stepping in and telling them how they should run their character, and how they should interpret their own character's code of behavior, and I think any amount of prescriptive brainstorming on a place like this isn't going to accomplish much of anything in terms of reducing alignment arguments.

That is valid and unfortunate. For others, it may, indeed, be useful.

Because at the end of the day, if I have a notion in my mind about what my paladin character's code of conduct entails (or doesn't)

Which is why I encourage you to make that clear with the DM before beginnign play.

then anyone else getting in my shorts and telling me what they think a paladin should be doing, even my DM, is--quite simply--overstepping his bounds and messing in something that's not really any of his business.

I will, respectfully, disagree here. A paladin, specifically, lives by a code of conduct. He/she has a "contractual", if you will, agreement with his/her deity...and he/she believes in the terms of the contract. They are characters of and with ideals, as laid out by their deity and/or temple/order, by which they operate and make their decisions. Ideals by which they live and believe in and willingly CHOOSE to follow.

If you want to be a character who is such a person to not only accept, but seek to enforce and uphold the tenets of such a code, then the character should have no argument/moral qualms in following them.

This concept that "I want to be a paladin, but I want to be able to do whatever I, the player, think is best or necessary or justify whatever I want to do" just baffles me...I don't understand where it came from/when it became common or acceptible in the game. It certainly never was in any group I played with.

No, you can't do that and be a paladin (or druid, or monk, or whatever alignment restricted class you happen to be playing) nor, would a character who is/chose to be a paladin seek to do that. Such a "person" (meaning, PC) wants to uphold the tenets of their order and spread the "correct-ness" of their god/dess as a beacon to the rest of the, generally, chaotic/uncertain world.

The DM, in these cases, is that deity (in the case of paladins and clerics) in-game. They are the governing forces of Good and Evil, Law and Chaos in the game universe. In short, it most definitely is the DM's "business" how a character acts in (or out of) accordance with the player's chosen class and the code thereof.

Hence why these things should be laid down/out and DMs and Players should be on "the same page" for play.

Now, that in no way eliminates personal choice or possible moral conflict/ethical dramas, etc. There are (should always be) choices for the player to make, which then the DM must rule on their acceptability or questionable nature and adjust the story/game accordingly.

--SD