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D&D 5E Working around Spirit Guardians

Adb0782

Explorer
Hello everyone,
im searching the best way to use Spirit Guardians with the Bladetrips.
In the beginning i went to check everything about arcana cleric, because i though it would be easier start from a cleric that already can get the bladetrips, i even thought to get shillelagh via magic initiate for more SADness, but honestly it can give some problem with action eonomy. Everyhting seem work fine, but that 19 AC make me think he gonna use his action for dodge kinda often (probably always). So i tryed to go other way: 1 divine sorcerer/1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/2 hexblade/x divine sorcerer. In this way it grab the bladetrips, shield and absorb element spells, it become totally SAD with only CHA to bump and without affecting the action economy in any bad way, and it will get also grasp of hadar for bring back things in the SG area and devil sight (good because he is a Vhuman).

Stat are 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

feats: warcaster as Vhuman, than +2 cha, telekinetic, fey touched

(Im considering also go for a more balanced 8, 14, 14, 8, 13, 16, as it anyway have advantage from warcaster on con saves but this mean the feats must change. warcaster, +2 cha, resilient (wis), +2 cha and so, i would lose my push/pull 5 ft bonus action)

Impotant spells: SG and the bladetrips of course, command and edricht blast.

The action economy would be normally: turn one spirit guardians, turn two BB attack + push 5 ft far from me the target via telekinetic, if he want to attack me he must move and trigger BB additional damage, turn three comand for make they leave my menacing area and get a BB opportunity attack + quicken spell BB or again telekinetic and push a target away. If they try to leave the spirit guardian area than i have eldricht blast with grasp of hadar as a reaction that in my turn i can quicken if needed, and he can even dodge and still attack with BB as a bonus action quickening BB.

I will not grab spiritual weapon as if this guy want to deal damage with a bonus action he can just quicken BB and do better than SW.

Bonus action economy will situationally be used for healing word, telekinetic, misty step, or quicken one between BB and eldricht blast.

Reactions: shield, absorb elements or BB OA.

I touhgt also about a similar build but with a lore bard, lightning lure and SW, as the bard dont ahave sorcery points for quicken and i wont use a 2 s
lv hexblade for grasp of hadar as SG already enter larer: 1 hexblade/lore bard 6 get everything it need.

Which you do think would work better?
 
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I think this might be better suited to Character Builds & Optimization board than the general channel.

I would play a Bardlock over a Sorlock, I'm not a fan of Sorcerer and I am generally disappointed by Warlock, so I would never play Sorlock in any event. I would also play a Battle Smith/Bladesinger over a Hexblade/Divine Soul. My opinion is not particularly common, however.
 

Hello everyone,
im searching the best way to use Spirit Guardians with the Bladetrips.
In the beginning i went to check everything about arcana cleric, because i though it would be easier start from a cleric that already can get the bladetrips, i even thought to get shillelagh via magic initiate for more SADness, but honestly it can give some problem with action eonomy. Everyhting seem work fine, but that 19 AC make me think he gonna use his action for dodge kinda often (probably always). So i tryed to go other way: 1 divine sorcerer/1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/2 hexblade/x divine sorcerer. In this way it grab the bladetrips, shield and absorb element spells, it become totally SAD with only CHA to bump and without affecting the action economy in any bad way, and it will get also grasp of hadar for bring back things in the SG area and devil sight (good because he is a Vhuman).

Stat are 8 str, 14 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 10 wis, 16 cha

feats: warcaster as Vhuman, than +2 cha, telekinetic, fey touched

(Im considering also go for a more balanced 8, 14, 14, 8, 13, 16, as it anyway have advantage from warcaster on con saves but this mean the feats must change. warcaster, +2 cha, resilient (wis), +2 cha and so, i would lose my push/pull 5 ft bonus action)

Impotant spells: SG and the bladetrips of course, command and edricht blast.

The action economy would be normally: turn one spirit guardians, turn two BB attack + push 5 ft far from me the target via telekinetic, if he want to attack me he must move and trigger BB additional damage, turn three comand for make they leave my menacing area and get a BB opportunity attack + quicken spell BB or again telekinetic and push a target away. If they try to leave the spirit guardian area than i have eldricht blast with grasp of hadar as a reaction that in my turn i can quicken if needed, and he can even dodge and still attack with BB as a bonus action quickening BB.

I will not grab spiritual weapon as if this guy want to deal damage with a bonus action he can just quicken BB and do better than SW.

Bonus action economy will situationally be used for healing word, telekinetic, misty step, or quicken one between BB and eldricht blast.

Reactions: shield, absorb elements or BB OA.

I touhgt also about a similar build but with a lore bard, lightning lure and SW, as the bard dont ahave sorcery points for quicken and i wont use a 2 s
lv hexblade for grasp of hadar as SG already enter larer: 1 hexblade/lore bard 6 get everything it need.

Which you do think would work better?

This sounds like an awful lot of work to do damage that's doesn't, at a first glance look much better than just spamming Hexed Eldritch Blast, at least not better enough to build your world around it, and is really a very specific trick for a specific sort of enemy (melee enemies at tenth level that don't have reach or ranged attacks), and additionally involves risking yourself in melee.
 

Adb0782

Explorer
This sounds like an awful lot of work to do damage that's doesn't, at a first glance look much better than just spamming Hexed Eldritch Blast, at least not better enough to build your world around it, and is really a very specific trick for a specific sort of enemy (melee enemies at tenth level that don't have reach or ranged attacks), and additionally involves risking yourself in melee.
Well, i dont know why you compared eldricht blast with hex with this build, as this build is created for make a good use of spirit guardians (and as the post name is "working around spirit guardians"), and if you use hex you cant use SG. So, if you want use spirit gardians (that anyway is a much stroger spell than hex and deal much much much much more damage) eldrich blast at lv 11 deal 3d10 = 21, BB deal 35 damage (or 25 and prevent them from move, that mean they cant go out from the spirit guardian area, whcih eldricht blast doesnt) and GFB deal more than it, and while is kinda true that telekinetic work only against melee targets, i dont get why you make this build work from lv 10 when telekinetic its just an add to a build that is made for work with spirit guardians and BB or GFB, and so it work from lv 6/7 for this character, telekinetic is indeed just a situational trick, as he can use his bonus action for it, for healing word, or just for quicken booming blade or eldricht blast with grasp of hadar or even mirror image or cure wounds, choosing in every turn what is better to do.

PS if you want more people possible stay in your SG area i suppose you should be in melee as much as you can, also for get opportunity attacks with BB if they try to leave your range (and sometimes you can even force them to leave your range with the command spell and trigger OA with BB and quicken a second atack with BB as bonus action, and they must trigger the additional damage of BB, as they must keep moving being commanded to do so getting him to deal 120 damage in one turn between SG and BB probably splitted to 2 targets and if SG have more than just 2 targets in the area is more than this, potentially 25 more for every target in the area, halved if they save and not reduced to 0 if it miss as for the melee attacks, and so he get almost as much damage as a fighter lv 11 with action surge lol), if you play ranged SG is kinda useless and you lose tons of damage.
 
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Adb0782

Explorer
I think this might be better suited to Character Builds & Optimization board than the general channel.

I would play a Bardlock over a Sorlock, I'm not a fan of Sorcerer and I am generally disappointed by Warlock, so I would never play Sorlock in any event. I would also play a Battle Smith/Bladesinger over a Hexblade/Divine Soul. My opinion is not particularly common, however.
Ill repost it there thanks, i was wrong, i didnt realize it was the general channel.

PS hexblade/divine soul is what i posted :p Battlesmith Bladesinger unluckly dont get spirit guardians as spell.
 

Well, i dont know why you compared eldricht blast with hex with this build,

Because you took three levels of Warlock. You've come up with a gimmick that you can't do until 6th level, has pretty limited uses until 10th, l and doesn't compare all that favorably to something that consumes fewer resources, has fewer tradeoffs, comes online as early as 3rd level, and can be done basically all day, every day.


as this build is created for make a good use of spirit guardians (and as the post name is "working around spirit guardians"), and if you use hex you cant use SG. So, if you want use spirit gardians (that anyway is a much stroger spell than hex and deal much much much much more damage) eldrich blast at lv 11 deal 3d10 = 21, BB deal 35 damage (or 25 and prevent them from move, that mean they cant go out from the spirit guardian area, whcih eldricht blast doesnt) and GFB deal more than it, and while is kinda true that telekinetic work only against melee targets, i dont get why you make this build work from lv 10 when telekinetic its just an add to a build that is made for work with spirit guardians and BB or GFB, and so it work from lv 6/7 for this character, telekinetic is indeed just a situational trick, as he can use his bonus action for it, for healing word, or just for quicken booming blade or eldricht blast with grasp of hadar or even mirror image or cure wounds, choosing in every turn what is better to do

With 18 CHA, Agonized Hexed Eldritch Blast at level 11 does 3d10 + 3d6 + 12 (avg 38.4) and costs a single 1st-level spell slot. In the event something has high enough HP to merit expending a resource, for only two sorcery points, you can double that the next round. The trick you've come up with costs either a 3rd or a 4th level slot. Moreover, since it relies on a single attack roll, it will fail more often, and that's going to mean more slots burned on Shield. By contrast, EB has 3 attack rolls. Missing all three is rare. Pick up Repelling Blast as your 2nd invocation, and the only time you need to worry about casting Shield is if you get isolated from the party.

Assuming everything fires off with your BB trick, i.e. a) you hit, b) the monster moves, and c) it fails its save, it's what, 9d8+4? Am I missing something?
 

Adb0782

Explorer
i got only 2 lv of hexblade, not 3, and what you are missing is the damage from spirit guardians:

spirit guardians at lv 11 can deal 6d8 (5d8 more realistic) to every creature in the area (15 ft). We can assume just 2 creatures but probably will be more. Now if in your turn you command 1 creature (lv 1 spell slot) to move away from you, you get one opportunity attack with BB that must trigger the booming damage as he must keep moving, so it mean 5d8 + weapon (1d8) + 4 cha, but its your turn, so you can quicken other BB attack that they must to trigger with booming damage for other 6d8 +4, this bring us to 12d8 +8 + 10d8 spirit guardians (5d8 on 2 targets), that even if they save they get just halved. it mean, if my math is correct 118 damage in one round (and you can also choos3 to split the BB damage on both creatures or hit just one creature with both attacks), and if there are more than 2 creatures in the spirit guardian area, that is possible, the damage still grow up. And the damage is as good also at lower lv as at higher.
 
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Marc Radle

Adventurer
A portmanteau of cantrips and Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade, I assume. Action economy bites into using them together.
Good Lord I hate when people do this and I really wish they would stop for this very reason. Just say the actual thing, so people actually know what you are talking about! Why the need to combine them into a single, dopey made up word?

OK, pet peeve expressed, I feel a little better ...
 

jgsugden

Legend
i got only 2 lv of hexblade, not 3, and what you are missing is the damage from spirit guardians:

spirit guardians at lv 11 deal 6d8 to every creature in the area (15 ft). We can assume just 2 creatures but probably will be more. Now if in your turn you command 2 creature (lv 2 spell slot) to move away from you, you get one opportunity attack with BB that must trigger the booming damage as they must keep moving, so it mean 5d8 + weapon (1d8) + 4 cha, but its your turn, so you can quicken other BB attack that they must to trigger with booming damage for other 6d8 +4, this bring us to 12d8 +8 + 12d8 spirit guardians (6d8 on 2 targets), that even if they save they get just halved. it mean, if my math is correct 128 damage in one round, and if there are more than 2 creatures in the spirit guardian area, that is possible, the damage still grow up. And the damage is as good also at lower lv as at higher.
Let's talk this out a bit.

To get the 6th level spell slot to cast that Spirit Guardians for 6d8, you need to be 14th level with this build. You'll get that one Spirit Guardians for your single 6th level slot.

To set this up, unless you have ample time to cast spells before combat, you're going to spend round 1 casting spirit guardians.

Then, on Rd 2, you're going to be in melee with 2 enemies and cast command on 2 of them to force them to flee. You want to use a reaction to take an OA on one and use BB (warcaster allows this), and use your bonus action to cast BB on the other using quickened spell. That is problematic as there is no rule that allows you to interrupt an action or reaction unless there is a trigger that allows you to do so (). You could cast BB on one of those targets using your action and then quicken the command, but if they make the save, they will not flee and you'll only get the weapon damage plus 2d8 from the blooming blade, if you hit with the attack.

They need to fail 4 saving throws and you need to hit with 2 attacks to do the maximum damage, and that damage is going to be weapon + strength + 11d8 each, or about 58 each. The minimum damage, if you miss on your attack roll and they make their SG save is going to be about 13 damage each. You've spent a 6th level and 2nd level slot, as well as 2 spell points and relies upon a lot of rolls.

While this is fine, it is not revolutionary and is going to be harder to pull off.
 

Adb0782

Explorer
Let's talk this out a bit.

To get the 6th level spell slot to cast that Spirit Guardians for 6d8, you need to be 14th level with this build. You'll get that one Spirit Guardians for your single 6th level slot.

To set this up, unless you have ample time to cast spells before combat, you're going to spend round 1 casting spirit guardians.

Then, on Rd 2, you're going to be in melee with 2 enemies and cast command on 2 of them to force them to flee. You want to use a reaction to take an OA on one and use BB (warcaster allows this), and use your bonus action to cast BB on the other using quickened spell. That is problematic as there is no rule that allows you to interrupt an action or reaction unless there is a trigger that allows you to do so (). You could cast BB on one of those targets using your action and then quicken the command, but if they make the save, they will not flee and you'll only get the weapon damage plus 2d8 from the blooming blade, if you hit with the attack.

They need to fail 4 saving throws and you need to hit with 2 attacks to do the maximum damage, and that damage is going to be weapon + strength + 11d8 each, or about 58 each. The minimum damage, if you miss on your attack roll and they make their SG save is going to be about 13 damage each. You've spent a 6th level and 2nd level slot, as well as 2 spell points and relies upon a lot of rolls.

While this is fine, it is not revolutionary and is going to be harder to pull off.
yea i corrected the post before your reply, its 5d8 from SG, but it get 6d8 at lv 13 not 14, as i said this is a 2 hexblade/X divine soul sorcerer (DS/HB/DS/DS/DS/DS/HB/DS...)

Action economy is
1) spirit guardian or precast it when its possible
2) BB attack and choose what to do with bonus action: quicken other BB or grasp of hadar for bring someone else in SG area, or use telekinetic for make the guy you hitted trigger the additional damage from BB if he want to attack in his turn (this let you save resources), or even use healing word, but from lv 9 it will always be quicken guardian of faith.
3) start with bonus action BB attack, than if you hit cast command (2nd lv) and order to the target you hit and to other target to flee. The first one gonna trigger BB additional damage as you already hitted him, the second one gonna provoke an OA (hopefully non only from my character) and gonna again get the additional damage as he cant stop to move, if you miss with the first attack you not gonna use command with your action but whatever else.
4) if there is a turn 4 will be probably for eldricht blast and grasp of hadar, for apply what guardian of faith still have to give and SG as well.
5) if there is a turn 5 he can probably heal himself and kill what is still alive just keeping concentrated on SG.

He dont have his reaction for shield and absorb elements only in turn 3, or anway whenever he choose to cast command for the OA and double full BB damage.

So, there is no bonus action interrupting my attack or reaction action (there isnt even an attack action and my reaction happens after command, not after the bonus action attack).

im not searching for something revolutionary, just a good way to make work SG with BB, without spending all my actions dodging. But yea, we cant negate that the DPR go from 26 to 118 (+13/25 for every creature above the second in the SG area), as for a fighter go from 0 to 120/130, with 6 hit roll if he use action surge (at -5 to hit, while this character hit without any minus, and kinda same for mostly of characters go from 0 till something less than 100 with 3 or more hit/saves, with mostly of the higher in DPR having a -5 to hit) but also true that the fighter dont have to care about spell slots and can still grow some DPR searching for OA via PAM or sentinel or via superiority dice, have more hp but of course less spells utility and less AC. I find this build very strategic compared with a pure fighter and i dont think there are so many builds with a so big AC and a so good DPR even talking in general (i neither considered the +proficiency to damage and 19/20 to crit on cursed target that its anyway a boost to damage), maybe a sorcadin do it even better (Pala/sorc/sorc/sorc/sorc/sorc/pala/pala/pala/pala/pala/sorc...) adding smite and a second attack plus the aura for TS, but it can end his resources probably too quick, a straight warlock with eldrich blast or hexblade probably is some less DPR, but anyway for sure less AC, as he must give up shield and hit with -5, or give up also medium armors and so be played ranged without tank, an evoker can deal probably more damage but again it cant tank, a paladin with 2 attacks can deal lots of damage via smite and some concentration spell but its neither near 100 unless again, giving up the shield and hit with -5. What i mean is: about DPR and AC this character dont seem the poorest of choices, even he have to choose every turn if have a reaction attack or save his reaction for shield spell, and this gonna depend mostly from the number of enemies he is facing i suppose (considering that anyway he have a +1 AC if compared to any heavy armored guy without shield, while if they wear a shield their DPR go a lot down normally without GWM/shapeshooter), but his DPR and defenses seem far from be a suboptimal choice, indeed bcs the DPR depends from many sources.

PS i forget to say, later on when it get 4th lv spells (so at lv 11 chaacter again) after SG in the first turn, in the second turn it will always cast bonus action guardian of faith quickened for 10/20 damage more to everyone around every round, making the SG area still more hot + BB or eldricht blast as usual action). Of course it can use less resources, but in my games normally we get 2 or 3 encounters a day, for sure no more, sometimes even 1 (but i dubt anyway that so many tables gets the 6 encounter per day as in the PHB exemple), so im not so worried about save resources because what he have seem more than enough. Esecially slots: 1st lv spells are for shield and absorb elements, or sorcery points, 2nd lv is for command (he can use command 2 times and eventually use the other slot for sorcery points), 3rd lv are for upcast healing and cure and maybe one more command if it dont need heal that much, 4th lv guardian of faith (only in one fight, or even dont cast it if there are 3 fights, for cast spirit guardians a third time), spirit guardians and upcasted aid, 5th lv spirit guardian. it seem work kinda well to me till 2/3 fights a day, for more fights its probably necessary to save resources but well, i supose everyone does for more than 3 fights a day except maybe the fighter, and its anyway kinda sure that the more encounters a day there are, the more the classes with short rest resource's recovery shine.
 
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i got only 2 lv of hexblade, not 3, and what you are missing is the damage from spirit guardians:

This is what you said:

"1 divine sorcerer/1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/2 hexblade/x divine sorcerer"

That's 3 levels of hexblade. Did you mistype it?

spirit guardians at lv 11 can deal 6d8 (5d8 more realistic) to every creature in the area (15 ft).

With the above build, at 11th level, your highest level spell slot is 4th. That's 4d8. You don't get your 5th-level slot until 12th level, and you will never have more than 2 of them. You're not getting your 6th-level slot until 13th or 14th level, at which point the campaign is probably very close to over.

I'm not saying this sucks. I'm saying it's expensive for what it is. You can knock things around much harder with Eldritch Blast than you can with the "bladetrips," you can do lots of single-target damage extremely cheaply, and, for those times when you actually do want to use Spirit Guardians or whatever, sure, you can do that, too. It doesn't hurt to have Booming Blade in case something gets in your face, but it really shouldn't be the focal point of your build.

We can assume just 2 creatures but probably will be more. Now if in your turn you command 1 creature (lv 1 spell slot) to move away from you, you get one opportunity attack with BB that must trigger the booming damage as he must keep moving

Text of Command:

You speak a one-word command to a creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or follow the command on its next turn. The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn’t understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it.

I don't know how other DMs would rule, but I wouldn't have the creature continue moving to take the secondary BB damage*. You can argue with me if you like, but I'm not ruling that way.

*This is in a hypothetical world where I allow Warlock multiclassing and Crystal Pepsi still exists.
 

Adb0782

Explorer
This is what you said:

"1 divine sorcerer/1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/2 hexblade/x divine sorcerer"

That's 3 levels of hexblade. Did you mistype it?



With the above build, at 11th level, your highest level spell slot is 4th. That's 4d8. You don't get your 5th-level slot until 12th level, and you will never have more than 2 of them. You're not getting your 6th-level slot until 13th or 14th level, at which point the campaign is probably very close to over.

I'm not saying this sucks. I'm saying it's expensive for what it is. You can knock things around much harder with Eldritch Blast than you can with the "bladetrips," you can do lots of single-target damage extremely cheaply, and, for those times when you actually do want to use Spirit Guardians or whatever, sure, you can do that, too. It doesn't hurt to have Booming Blade in case something gets in your face, but it really shouldn't be the focal point of your build.



Text of Command:



I don't know how other DMs would rule, but I wouldn't have the creature continue moving to take the secondary BB damage*. You can argue with me if you like, but I'm not ruling that way.

*This is in a hypothetical world where I allow Warlock multiclassing and Crystal Pepsi still exists.
I claryfied this is 2 hexblade/x divine soul sorcerer (DS/HB/DS/DS/DS/DS/HB/DS...) so it get a 5th lv spell slot at lv 11...but before work kinda same anyway, just dont consider guardian of faith and upcast aid to lv 3 instead than 4...

What you said about eldricht blast dont let your character tank in any way (while hex/divine soul does), and it makes SG work much more less, as they have no reason to stay in the area, because you wont be in melee with them and so they dont fear any OA and they can just attack you and your group ranged (and anyway a pure warlock cant pick SG). Honestly i never see SG used from a ranged character, its kinda a waste slot, unless you want use eldricht blast from a kinda short range, but in that case your AC will be so low that you wont survive more than couples round (you get 17/18 including shield spell with no hexblade assuming 16 dex that is not few. If you go for the Booming blade road via hexblade, even casting hex and using eldricht smite 2 times a day, your DPR go to 1d8 +10 +3d8 + 6d8, so around 60 or 90 (if you smite 2 times but this gonna end your slots lol) and can grow up some more with some invocation i suppose. Even you want go just with eldricht blast and hexblade for the AC, you gonna deal 3d10 + 3d6 +4 so around 35 damage with it and you cant quicken it, even its true that it can get some higher with some invocation, but its around same avarage of a full BB or green flame blade, that use spirit guardians with more effectiveness due you are in melee, gets opportunity attacks that you wont get, cover a clear core role for the party (tank) that you cant get as you wont be in melee, and it still deal more damage than the pure class.

About the way you rule: you are assuming everyone know what booming blade spell is, and you are assuming that everyone after get hitted one time knows that its the movement that provoke the additional damage and not just a thunder on their head, and i dont think this is correct. I remind you that a player, not an NPC, for understand somethig like this have to pass at least an Arcana check, so i dont get why you would rule that any NPC can do even better than the characters, maybe even with int 3, if not just for nerf my mechanics, as they even cant make an arcana check, as they have to use THEIR TURN for move far from me and it include everything: their action, bonus action, reaction, interaction or whatever else, so they cant even try to understand what spell is hitting them. Different thing is if they find on their way a wall of fire or a huge no ending hole, which is kinda easy to recognize as harmful without any check. Maybe only who know the BB cantrip can understand something like this so fast, but honestly, i wouldnt think as much about it as probably this character will never meet any enemy with BB.

i keep dont understanding why, in a post that talk about maximize spirit guardians, you want convince me that its better to give up the spell and do something totally different with a totally different concept of character that wont probably neither use SG. I mean: i understand you think it gonna have too much resource's dependence and its something i'd like to discuss because i think that for 2/3 fights a day what it have is enough, but keep making me exemples of ranged casters that from a realistic point will not use SG, cant tank and keep dealing less damage per turn, just because are less dependent from resources i think wont help that much.

I grants you that SG is a good spell, im just searching around the way to make it more effective and use BB and GFB for keep them in the area and get a damage boost.

PS if you are so concerned about spell slots it work as well with just 1 lv of hexblade and divine soul sorcerer till the end, using lightning lure instead than grasp of hadar for bring things inside SG and getting darkvision as 2nd lv spell, but i honestly still think that second lv dip in hexblade is worth as it free you a slot from casting darkvision (devil sight) and it give you the same lighting lure gives but much more powerfull and with a bigger range.
 
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Adb0782

Explorer
This is what you said:

"1 divine sorcerer/1 hexblade/5 divine sorcerer/2 hexblade/x divine sorcerer"

That's 3 levels of hexblade. Did you mistype it?



With the above build, at 11th level, your highest level spell slot is 4th. That's 4d8. You don't get your 5th-level slot until 12th level, and you will never have more than 2 of them. You're not getting your 6th-level slot until 13th or 14th level, at which point the campaign is probably very close to over.

I'm not saying this sucks. I'm saying it's expensive for what it is. You can knock things around much harder with Eldritch Blast than you can with the "bladetrips," you can do lots of single-target damage extremely cheaply, and, for those times when you actually do want to use Spirit Guardians or whatever, sure, you can do that, too. It doesn't hurt to have Booming Blade in case something gets in your face, but it really shouldn't be the focal point of your build.



Text of Command:



I don't know how other DMs would rule, but I wouldn't have the creature continue moving to take the secondary BB damage*. You can argue with me if you like, but I'm not ruling that way.

*This is in a hypothetical world where I allow Warlock multiclassing and Crystal Pepsi still exists.
Maybe i misunderstood you anyway, im sorry,, because maybe you mean just to use eldricht blast and not BB and GFB on this hex 2/divine soul x and not on the pure class. If this is the case, than the reason for use BB is because you gonna prevent them from move and so keep them in range of SG, which eldricht blast doesnt, and also, eldricht blast, ranged attacks and movement in general, work bad with guardian of the faith. If you want to use SG, maybe wit guardian of faith, to be in melee is good if your concentration is hard to broke and your AC is enough hight. And anyway the resources expended using BB or eldricht blast in this build are same, except the command spell all would work in the same way even using eldricht blast, so the one resource i would save in that way would be one 2nd lv spell slot for encounter at the cost of dpr and without can be the tank of the group anymore.
 
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auburn2

Adventurer
6th level is a long time to go for a payoff like this and until then you are building a melee character that is not good at melee. I would look at other options, based on cleric base class.

Instead of Arcane cleric, take a cleric that gives heavy armor and dip into wizard, sorcerer or warlock for the cantrips. A twilight cleric in particular with 1 level in one of these would IMO be better for what you are trying to do and would come online quicker, especially since you can take thewarcaster feat at 1st level and get superior darkvision to boot.

As far as being MAD you don't need all that constitution if you get heavy armor and a shield and the shield spell and absorb elements and warcaster ....... and you can have all that at level 2. So you can easily drop constitution to 12 and dexterity to 10/8 to get the strength and inteligence or charisma you need and you will have a more well rounded character that is as good or better in combat.

Personally I like wizard for this build because of the rituals, I would also eventually go to 2nd level and take war mage - cleric 1, wizard 1, cleric 5, wizard 2, cleric x.
 

Adb0782

Explorer
6th level is a long time to go for a payoff like this and until then you are building a melee character that is not good at melee. I would look at other options, based on cleric base class.

Instead of Arcane cleric, take a cleric that gives heavy armor and dip into wizard, sorcerer or warlock for the cantrips. A twilight cleric in particular with 1 level in one of these would IMO be better for what you are trying to do and would come online quicker, especially since you can take thewarcaster feat at 1st level and get superior darkvision to boot.

As far as being MAD you don't need all that constitution if you get heavy armor and a shield and the shield spell and absorb elements and warcaster ....... and you can have all that at level 2. So you can easily drop constitution to 12 and dexterity to 10/8 to get the strength and inteligence or charisma you need and you will have a more well rounded character that is as good or better in combat.

Personally I like wizard for this build because of the rituals, I would also eventually go to 2nd level and take war mage - cleric 1, wizard 1, cleric 5, wizard 2, cleric x.
The twilight domain and the war magic school seem work well, the initiative will be great as the saves and the AC, without can quicken BB it lose some DPR but that shouldnt be a problem.

Ill check later also about twilight cleric with some sorcerer dips and ill try with some dip in warlock as well, ill update the post. :p

PS its funny because i started this build with a death cleric bladesinger for an insane AC and double necromancy trip + weapon attack, but seem it dont work well as i hoped and from there i got till the hex/divine soul lol, so i want to give a try to this twilight cleric/war wizard.
 

Maybe i misunderstood you anyway, im sorry,, because maybe you mean just to use eldricht blast and not BB and GFB on this hex 2/divine soul x and not on the pure class. If this is the case, than the reason for use BB is because you gonna prevent them from move and so keep them in range of SG, which eldricht blast doesnt,

My point is that you don't really have enough high-level spell slots to use the SG trick to its fullest very often, and it's really only particularly good in specific situations, so you should probably expect to rely more on EB. YMMV.
 

Lidgar

Adventurer
How to have fun with SG?

1. Take 9 levels of Forge Cleric, tank up.
2. Round 1 of combat move into the fray and use 5th level slot on SG.
3. Round 2: bonus action cast spiritual weapon using 4th level slot and use action to attack with main weapon (adding 1d8 fire damage to the attack).
3. Rinse, repeat.

It’s pretty amazing how effective this is, no muticlassing needed.
SG 5d8 + SW 2d8+WIS + weapon damage+STR/DEX + 1d8 fire
 
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