Worlds of Design: Is Combat Now Passe?

In April 2020 my column was titled “Is Fighting Evil Passé?” Readers pointed out that it was a misleading title, and it was: my original title was “Is Fighting Evil the Focus of Your Campaign?” This time I want to address what the published title suggested.

What percentage of time in your RPG play (as player or GM) is spent in lethal combat?


In April 2020 my column was titled “Is Fighting Evil Passé?” Readers pointed out that it was a misleading title, and that's because the editor changed it [Ed note: Yep!]. My original title was “Is Fighting Evil the Focus of Your Campaign?” This time I want to address what my proposed title suggested.

knight-3038799_960_720.jpg

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

I’ve modified the question from “fighting” to “combat,” because fighting is going to occasionally occur in the lives of special characters who often have military-style training, if only in a bar-room or as part of the typical love triangles and other expressions of lust and greed.

So, is combat now passé? Keep in mind that virtually all of the original D&D players were wargamers. We were accustomed to playing games where there was a battle if not many battles. I’m using the term "combat" here to mean deadly skirmishes rather than scuffles, events where people/creatures get killed rather than they get a bloody nose or a broken limb.

But now the vast majority of new D&D players don’t play wargames; they may not play other (non-RPG) games at all. In that case it’s easy to imagine that many players are not much interested in combat. This reminds me of something my wife said the other day (keep in mind I met my wife through D&D and she played for about 15 years). She prefers the first book of the Lord of the Rings because she’s not interested in the battles that occupy so much of the other two books. Even in Moria, the Fellowship’s purpose was to get through without a fight, not to fight the Balrog.

Perhaps the change in science fiction and fantasy we’ve seen since 1980 has also made a difference. Stories now are far more often about people and their motivations and daily difficulties, more about shades of gray rather than black and white, and much less about Adventure with a capital “A.” That has conditioned people not to look for battles.

In a well-realized setting/world, there ought to be lots of things to do, including lots of conflicts, that don’t end with life and death fighting. Politics, business success, greed and lust (which seem to power most of the dramas you see on TV), exploration, there are lots of alternatives to adventuring and killing. This might not be satisfactory to the old guard D&Ders but may be fine for newer players.

Another approach is to have frequent battles that could theoretically result in death, but virtually never result in player character death, only the death of the opposition. I suspect that’s where a lot of campaigns have gone, just as the rules of the games have gone that way. I remember playing in the “D&D Essentials” games with the Fourth Edition rules, and being shocked when a couple of player characters died, because it was so, well, difficult to die! Yet Fourth Edition was all about combats and little else. (I always try to make sure everyone in my party (as a player) lives unless they do something really stupid, but I guess these two were behaving so foolishly I had to ignore them, or I might have somehow saved them.) When I first read the Fifth Edition rules I noted the rules and spells that made it difficult for anyone to be killed, such as the third level cleric spell Revivify. It’s “a far piece” from how it was with original D&D where you had to husband every hit point and often had to decide to run away or even leave the adventure for lack of hit points.

How does it work in your campaign? Let me know in the poll and in the comments.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
We don't know how extensive or accurate WotC's market analysis is. They might know about broad buying trends and preferences by demographics, etc. But to get information about what people actually want in RPGs, and how they play them, they need to poll gamers on a large scale.

Well, as a professional statistician, although you can poll a large number of people, it's expensive and likely pointless. Instead you should use mostly demographic data to assemble a profile of your customers and then sample from that pool and re-weight by demographics to get effectively the same information but requiring far fewer surveys. You can use the results of your previous large scale surveys to validate that your demographic stratification is representative and you are in pretty good shape.

I don't see any reason WOTC wouldn't do exactly that, so the fact that you don't see large scale surveys doesn't mean WOTC doesn't have a good handle on what people want.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Anecdote is not the singular of data.

Everyone has a limit as to how many fiddly bits they want.

There's also a major point about differentiation to be made here - CRPGs and tabletop RPGs are different experiences, and maybe matching the CRPG level of fiddlyness does not actually serve the RPG experience. If you position yourself so that you are basically a CRPG that is slower and more difficult to organize... that's not a win.
Has there been any "data" posted in this thread at all?
 

Rhianni32

Adventurer
LOL - You have much RPG history to learn my friend....
Hence, to say that D&D or RPG in general was all combat back then is a misinform opinion.

Awesome. Not only did you pull the "my-experience-is-different-so-therefore-your-opinion-is-wrong." you also added in the condescending I'm ignorant but you are going to teach me schtick.
What is it with this place? I do applaud you though for cutting out a key part of my post...
"The rules of the more common rules were all combat focused leaving RP as a subchapter "

I lived through much of the RPG history you are claiming I need to learn. I'm 45. Sure there was Pendragon and Cthulu and you could find those rules in your FLGS's discount bin because few were playing them. You usually would find them past all the TSR offerings up front because that is what sold because that is what the majority of gamers played. I will admit one notable exception is that World of Darkness did pretty well over the years and had more rules for RP then D&D did though I am not sure I would classify it as a RP focused over combat ruleset.
 

Well, as a professional statistician, although you can poll a large number of people, it's expensive and likely pointless.

But WotC did carry out polling and testing on a huge scale (by RPG standards) for Next. And they said the results overturned some of the accepted wisdom in the hobby as to what gamers wanted and enjoyed. D&D 5E reflects the largest market analysis of RPGers performed in the history of the industry.
 

Coroc

Hero
I assuming lethal you mean a dead pc even if a spell brings him back afterwards. As of Tuesday my AL games have 35.27% lethal chance if you enter combat. For Season 9 modules 18 pc killed to 399 monsters. For Descent 5 PC killed 235 monsters killed. 19 captured 7 escaped. Things that throw my numbers high. Bad group tactics but great individual tactics. Occasionally they leave me with only one valid target. Two regular players not caring if their pc dies. And in my first year lack of game knowledge to know when to pull blows or switch targets.
Back in 1E I had pc die before the erasable ink dry. But back them I could create a pc in 3 minutes if non caster. 5 if caster.
35%? Wow, that is tough. I tend to make my encounters pretty hard, but it may be 1 or 2 pc in the dead saves , but not fatalities outright. Usually someone tosses a heal or lends an inspiration when everything else fails.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
35%? Wow, that is tough. I tend to make my encounters pretty hard, but it may be 1 or 2 pc in the dead saves , but not fatalities outright. Usually someone tosses a heal or lends an inspiration when everything else fails.
The last two years have been mainly due to good individual tactics but bad group tactics. Ex. In Descent, Half the group hid in a fog cloud popping in and out of it to attack. A third went for range attacks. Leaving me one target. About a fourth overall are players ticking other players off. The group wants a social encounter, and Bob charges the monster. The group closes the door after Bob charges through. And two of my players are murderhobos and don't care if their pc dies.
I do campaign write ups. Feel free to ask questions about why I did stuff in those threads.
DOH! Forgot to mention Adventure League only DM.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
.
DOH! Forgot to mention Adventure League only DM.

Sounds like it’s a regular AL group, then, rather then a scratch-built group at an event? That’s a good thing because that kind of lack of teamwork has a tendency to really sour players on public, event games. I’m in a PFS game now (play by post) with the most startling lack of teamwork I’ve ever encountered in organized play... and it’s frankly really irritating. I doubt it would be this bad in face to face play, but I’m about ready to be done with it.
 

PMárk

Explorer
How is this something new? There were always (and always will be) people, who enjoy tactical and detailed combat as a kind of minigame within the story itself. On there other hand there was always a crowd that found that boring and too much of the hassle, but enjoyed rp-ing the hell out of every minor mundane character interaction situation. The entire rules-light-narrative movement was founded on that. Hell, it was a big part of WoD success, back in the day (though the rules still supported combat quite throughly).

So no, I don't think combat is "passé". Different folks just prefer different things in rpgs and luckily, we have rpgs catered to every preference.

For me, I enjoy good combat with lots of tactical choices and itneresting abilities, enemies and environment very much. I enjoy it as a part of the story and as a minigame itself, so I prefer games with rules supporting that. On the other hand, I equally enjoy exploration and character interaction too.
 

Coroc

Hero
The last two years have been mainly due to good individual tactics but bad group tactics. Ex. In Descent, Half the group hid in a fog cloud popping in and out of it to attack. A third went for range attacks. Leaving me one target. About a fourth overall are players ticking other players off. The group wants a social encounter, and Bob charges the monster. The group closes the door after Bob charges through. And two of my players are murderhobos and don't care if their pc dies.
I do campaign write ups. Feel free to ask questions about why I did stuff in those threads.
DOH! Forgot to mention Adventure League only DM.

Ok, that explains a lot. A Bob in the group can make life difficult :p
 


Related Articles

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top