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5E Worst Classes Level 1.

Essentially ending the encounter by having the goblins flee, or cower, or surrender is fine.

Having the goblins respond with advanced tactics tailored to take advantage of a very specific short circuit to the rage ability requires some in game justification, in my opinion.

Hardened goblin mercenaries that have fought in many wars over the years, could plausibly know the tactic. Others, probably should not.
I would say that even "hardened mercenaries" couldn't "use the tactic" because characters do not go around with class labels and status effect indicators floating above their heads. All the goblins see is a big guy with an axe.
 

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Gammadoodler

Explorer
I would say that even "hardened mercenaries" couldn't "use the tactic" because characters do not go around with class labels and status effect indicators floating above their heads. All the goblins see is a big guy with an axe.
Enhh... Assuming the classes for the game are sufficiently represented in the fiction of the world, any 'experienced' character could try to make informed decisions based on what they've seen. 'Big guy with an axe' might not 100% mean 'barbarian', but the percentage could be high enough to make it a reasonable conclusion (In the same way that 'little guy in leathers with daggers' might normally be a rogue).

That said, using 'hardened goblin mercenaries' against your level 1 party would be a strange (and questionable) choice to make as a DM.
 

Eltab

Hero
Before the WotC site closed, there was a thread about creating a platoon of goblinoid mercenaries who specialized in anti-adventurer tactics. 3e stats were included; most of them were whatever level got you 1 feat. (Gotta dig out my notes.)
Putting a squad of those mercs up to face an L1 group would be overkill and a squandering of the patron's money - but it would also tell the surviving PCs "something very important is going on over here".
 

Gammadoodler

Explorer
Yeah, the impact is not huge but Dex and Wis have very nice skills to be proficient in. Barbarians have the coolest button in the game but how much does it actually help?

It turns 15 HP into 30 HP twice a day, but it has conditions. Only 1 minute each, not against elemental damage, it can fade early, and only gives damage to strength attacks.

Don't get me wrong, that's still really powerful and you get to roar at the table. But the fighter gets 32.5 HP without a time or elemental restriction, and that goes up if you have more than 2 short rests (not guaranteed). It's just not flashy.

Barbarians feel really cool, but they are one of the weakest at 1st level. Still a solid 2,0,0 using that other fellows rating, but just a little less useful than everyone else.
I would counter that the comparison to fighter here is a bit misleading. It's not really 30 hp vs. 32.5 hp. It's 30 current hp vs. 32 hp of sustain.

Not that my experience is representative, but such as it is, the level 1 characters I've seen die have died to spike damage rather than sustained damage. Rage is waaay better at addressing spike damage than second wind.
 

Enhh... Assuming the classes for the game are sufficiently represented in the fiction of the world, any 'experienced' character could try to make informed decisions based on what they've seen. 'Big guy with an axe' might not 100% mean 'barbarian', but the percentage could be high enough to make it a reasonable conclusion (In the same way that 'little guy in leathers with daggers' might normally be a rogue).
If it was the case that classes where things known about in the game world, then it would also be logical that people would take steps to actively conceal their class. So what you think you "know" is more than likely to be wrong.
 

Gammadoodler

Explorer
If it was the case that classes where things known about in the game world, then it would also be logical that people would take steps to actively conceal their class. So what you think you "know" is more than likely to be wrong.
Logical-ish. It's like everything a person might want to conceal. It's a cost-benefit proposition in the value vs hassle of taking those steps.

In either case, it'd be a weird thing to have come up often at level 1.
 

Ashrym

Hero
Manticore is kind of a corner case no?
Lol, I wasn't the one who brought up the manticore as an example of a barbarian good fight moment.

I don't find raging twice per day at 1st level as useful as heavy armor every encounter and second winds, or as encounter impacting as access to the sleep spell.

That's not because barbarians are a bad class or anything. It's because at 1st level there still aren't that many HP for rage to stretch out and there's not much else going on at that level for the class.

At 2nd level the HP increase is significant compared to 1st and I can already feel more impact from rage. It's still lacking when there's no rage, but advantage on attacks can still be useful and advantage on Dec saves also stretches out HP as well.

I don't find rage that impressive for a limited use ability at 1st level. It's higher levels where number of uses, bonuses, and additional abilities tied to rage kick in that makes the ability shine.
 

Undrave

Hero
Lol, I wasn't the one who brought up the manticore as an example of a barbarian good fight moment.

I don't find raging twice per day at 1st level as useful as heavy armor every encounter and second winds, or as encounter impacting as access to the sleep spell.

That's not because barbarians are a bad class or anything. It's because at 1st level there still aren't that many HP for rage to stretch out and there's not much else going on at that level for the class.

At 2nd level the HP increase is significant compared to 1st and I can already feel more impact from rage. It's still lacking when there's no rage, but advantage on attacks can still be useful and advantage on Dec saves also stretches out HP as well.

I don't find rage that impressive for a limited use ability at 1st level. It's higher levels where number of uses, bonuses, and additional abilities tied to rage kick in that makes the ability shine.
I agree that the Barbarian is pretty low on the Level 1 tier list, but I wouldn't place it at the bottom just because you're still a burly and solid warrior regardless. It's not as good as a Fighter, or as useful as a Rogue or a character with Sleep. I'd put it above Warlock and Ranger however, and arguably Sorcerer (but not the Xanathar's Sorcerers).
 

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