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5E Worst Classes Level 1.


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NotAYakk

Legend
Wizards gets at least two and maybe 3 spells.

Warlock gets 1 spell maybe 2, crapshoot in the 3rd.

I like warlocks a lot but I've noticed newer players lean heavily towards going nova then wanting to rest.

I'm thinking if just doubling or tripling short rest abilities and eliminating short rests.

Doesn't really fix it though. Also a side effect of fewer 5E spell slots relative to say 3E.
I vote for gritty rests, with time pressure on the level of days or weeks.

Days time pressure means they can take a limited number of short rests as they choose.

Weeks time pressure means they can take a limited number of long rests.
That is all true..but I’ve seen a Fighter try to lasso a Manticore, and need a timely expenditure of an Inspiration point by another PC, (as well as a plaintive plea to be allowed to act out of turn), to cast the Guidance cantrip to keep the Fighter from being carried aloft.

Having Advantage on the oppressed Str check, to be kept from being carried aloft, makes it that more likely the group does not need to expend those resources. The true role of the Barbarian is: The Survivor, at 1st level...that role helps the entire PC group to live, by not needing their help to live.
The grappling barbarian wouldn't be still be raging by raw, because a grapple check isn't an attack.

Of course I don't know how lasso works in your game. Make an attack roll, if it hits the target is grappled? Then the manticore cannot fly until it breaks free...

I guess somehow it puts the PC and manticore into an attached but not grappled mode, and counts as an attack to keeo barbarian in rage?
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
The grappling barbarian wouldn't be still be raging by raw, because a grapple check isn't an attack.
Really? It says it is a special melee attack in the PHB. In fact, raging gives you advantage on Strength ability checks, so you would have advantage on the Strength (Athletics) check when you do it. Since it is an attack (albeit a "special" one), and you get advantage when you do it while raging, it certainly seems like that should continue your rage IMO.

Is there a sage advice clarification I don't know of? Here's the one I found that seems to support it is an attack:

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Here he states the grapple options "is an attack", but it simply uses a different mechanic in the ability check instead of the attack roll.
 


Yep, just like a Shove Attack is an attack.
In my opinion the flavor restrictions for the barbarian, in almost every edition the class has appeared in, are too harsh, or have elements that are often ignored or forgotten.

A player that looses Rage due to the DM having all the Goblins hide for one round, is fairly ignoble, and not that fun for the player.

Likewise, the Exhaustion level granted by the Frenzy ability, should be ignored. The penalty, negates the Advantage of Reckless Attack, and is not good flavor.

A Fighter is not fatigued after usage of an Action Surge, and a Barbarian should be assumed to have well developed cardiovascular development. Indigenous groups in the Amazonian Delta, that maintain traditional lifestyles routinely walk around 17,000 steps a day, or almost 10 miles.
 



Ashrym

Hero
Doesn't matter if it hit or not, just that it keeps rage up for a turn.
Yes, but that's not the point. It's hard to assert a barbarian does well against a manticores because they aren't great at ranged combat keeping rage up or not.

The barbarian can be durable but that doesn't seem like much to me.
 

Undrave

Hero
Yes, but that's not the point. It's hard to assert a barbarian does well against a manticores because they aren't great at ranged combat keeping rage up or not.

The barbarian can be durable but that doesn't seem like much to me.
Manticore is kind of a corner case no?
 


A player that looses Rage due to the DM having all the Goblins hide for one round, is fairly ignoble, and not that fun for the player.
A DM who metagames like that is a bad DM. Gobins can't know that if the barbarian can't see them for a round she will stop raging. Monsters should be blind to game mechanics.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
A DM who metagames like that is a bad DM. Gobins can't know that if the barbarian can't see them for a round she will stop raging. Monsters should be blind to game mechanics.
Or the DM could narrate the goblins are terrified of the barbarian when they see the rage emerge (his anger, yelling, or steely-eyed cold-killer demeanor, etc.) and all hide to protect themselves (especially if he has been raging for a round or more and already killed some of them).

Even if they do this, nothing stops the barbarian from attacking anything around him (a tree, crushing a rock with a hammer, etc), cutting himself for 2 points of damage (reduced to 1 due to raging), etc. to keep the rage going.

So, as long as it fits the narrative of the encounter, the DM having all the goblins hide isn't a bad thing IMO. Just because you don't like how an encounter plays out, doesn't mean the DM is "bad" or "ignoble." After all, players use knowledge of mechanics all the time to their advantage (oh, this creature is resistant to that and you want to use silver or magic weapons against "this", etc.).
 

Or the DM could narrate the goblins are terrified of the barbarian when they see the rage emerge (his anger, yelling, or steely-eyed cold-killer demeanor, etc.) and all hide to protect themselves (especially if he has been raging for a round or more and already killed some of them).
Goblins hiding because they are frigtned is fine. Having them stop being frightened one round later is metagaming.
Even if they do this, nothing stops the barbarian from attacking anything around him (a tree, crushing a rock with a hammer, etc), cutting himself for 2 points of damage (reduced to 1 due to raging), etc. to keep the rage going.
Trees and rocks aren't hostile creatures, so attacking them doesn't count as per RAW.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
Goblins hiding because they are frigtned is fine. Having them stop being frightened one round later is metagaming.

Trees and rocks aren't hostile creatures, so attacking them doesn't count as per RAW.
Why is it metagaming? This is narration--the DM describes that the barbarian's shoulders slump slightly and his breathing relaxes, etc. And again, players metagame all the time so shouldn't complain when the DM has monsters act to their advantage.

True, trees and rocks don't work, but you get the point. A single point of damage, say from a burning torch, is all it takes to keep rage going.
 

Why is it metagaming? This is narration--the DM describes that the barbarian's shoulders slump slightly and his breathing relaxes, etc.
The DM doesn't get to narrate the actions of a player character.

There is no rule that says "Rage" has any sort of visual effect. Without metagame knowledge there is no way goblins could tell if a character is raging or not (or even know their class was "barbarian").
And again, players metagame all the time so shouldn't complain when the DM has monsters act to their advantage.
No, players are not allowed to metagame. They can only know what their characters know. Part of the DM's job is stopping players from metagaming.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
The DM doesn't get to narrate the actions of a player character.

There is no rule that says "Rage" has any sort of visual effect. Without metagame knowledge there is no way goblins could tell if a character is raging or not (or even know their class was "barbarian").

No, players are not allowed to metagame. They can only know what their characters know. Part of the DM's job is stopping players from metagaming.
There is no rule that says "Rage" doesn't have visual effect, either, so that is a moot argument.

And the goblins can know whatever the DM decides they know (maybe this tribe has encountered raging barbarians before and are wary), just as the characters know what they know. By using the knowledge the characters know the players are metagaming, after all, how do the players determine it? By asking the DM and maybe making an Intelligence check. But why would they want to make one? Because they players know something and want to see if their characters know it. In the same light, the DM could have the goblins make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to see if the goblins know/ understand about "rage".

Finally, who decides what a "character knows"? Proficiency is not required to make ability checks for Intelligence or Wisdom or whatever.

But you should know that a lot of players aren't going to consider a DM "bad" for having goblins cower and such when encountering a raging barbarian.

At any rate, we aren't going to agree on this and I don't want to threadjack this future.
 

Or the DM could narrate the goblins are terrified of the barbarian when they see the rage emerge (his anger, yelling, or steely-eyed cold-killer demeanor, etc.) and all hide to protect themselves
Essentially ending the encounter by having the goblins flee, or cower, or surrender is fine.

Having the goblins respond with advanced tactics tailored to take advantage of a very specific short circuit to the rage ability requires some in game justification, in my opinion.

Hardened goblin mercenaries that have fought in many wars over the years, could plausibly know the tactic. Others, probably should not.
 

Goblins can hide as a bonus action so they're going to be hiding every turn in combat if they can whether or not there's a barbarian present. If every one of them beats the barbarian's passive perception then that's just bad luck for the player.

Now, if the DM deliberately avoids targeting the barbarian so that he doesn't take any damage that would let him maintain rage, that's unfair metagaming IMO.
 

Agreed, however, the goblins, I think are more likely to use their bonus action to Disengage first then hide, once out of sight. Can terrain make hiding easier...absolutely.

If Bruce Banner turns into the Hulk, and 20 goblins run away and hide, I would call that a resource efficient resolution to an encounter.
It might not be "Hulk Smash", but it worked for the moment.
 

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