D&D 5E WotC Dungeons & Dragons 2020 Product Survey

[jasper]

To monetize the point of play. The physical D&D products, like the Starter Set, that sold well at Target and Walmart pre-pandemic are not selling right now...and likely won't be for two years.

If the pandemic has changed consumer habits, and WotC has a choice between setups like it already has, or releasing it's own product and capturing more of the total revenue share...rest assured WotC is going to hunt for Dollars.

Hmm When I was picking up my D&D minis from Walmart this weekend, 3 starter sets were also on the shelf. Along with various that Ticker to ride game, Cantaan ? and other board games I use only find in FLGS.

 

[ccs]

Hmm When I was picking up my D&D minis from Walmart this weekend, 3 starter sets were also on the shelf. Along with various that Ticker to ride game, Cantaan ? and other board games I use only find in FLGS.

Oh yeah. That's been going on for close to 10 years now (varies by location). WM/Target/Toys-R-Us{ }/etc... Odds are most of those things are being supplied by an outside vendor, not the main WM supply channel. Same as the Sports Cards, Pokemon cards, etc.

 

[lkj]

WOTC: The future is virtual and electronic!

Also WOTC: What? PDFs? Why would we sell those?

Honestly? That's not a crazy take. PDF's are not the best form of digital medium anymore by a longshot. I find the DDB digital form to be much, much more useful. I can see why WotC doesn't feel a strong need to make them available.

Note: I recognize there are other advantages of pdf's (e.g., some increased portability, like to a kindle, and that once you have a copy you aren't relying on a service to maintain access to it.).

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[Ruin Explorer]

Honestly? That's not a crazy take. PDF's are not the best form of digital medium anymore by a longshot. I find the DDB digital form to be much, much more useful. I can see why WotC doesn't feel a strong need to make them available.

I can sympathize with this, and I'm not married to PDFs myself (they're an aging and not-very-good technology), but I think the key issue is really simple:

that once you have a copy you aren't relying on a service to maintain access to it.).

WotC have shown complete willingness to shut down digital services people have spent a lot of money on, and other services/websites which probably cost them peanuts to keep up, have likewise been casually shut down.

They refuse to make any promises on the subject, and there's no particular reason to believe that once they're "done" with 5E, that they'll actually ever allow long-term store-able digital copies of 5E stuff to be created by D&D Beyond or Roll 20 or whatever, despite people having paid hundreds of dollars for digital 5E materials. D&D Beyond have said that if they ever shut down, if you use your app and download all the books before they shut down, you'll still have access via that, but obviously if you then had to wipe your phone or whatever, that would be that. You'd have no legal way to get the stuff back (and on Apple, perhaps no way at all without jailbreaking the phone, though I dunno), unless you had a backup and were able to sideload it back on to your phone/tablet, and that actually worked (which it might not, depending on how it was all set up).

I do think it's likely that when 5E is done, WotC will release PDFs of all the books via DMs Guild, but given their pricing on 4E books, you'd likely be looking at spending hundreds of dollars to get stuff you already had.

People want PDFs for a lot of reasons, but I think this is the most common one - the ability to legally and straightforwardly back up their books in an era when that should be trivial.

 

[Helldritch]

That is why I don't buy stuff on Beyond. DM Guild has at least downloadable files. An App is vulnerable to the market trend and can end up being unsupported in the blink of an eye. And when your phone or tablet breaks down, you're out of luck.

 

[MNblockhead]

I guess I don't see D&D Beyond as a permanent archive. For me it is what I use for active play. It allows me to conveniently read and reference the material during games and when on the go, without having to tote around heavy books. I still buy the books for filling my bookshelves at home and because I enjoy paging through books when relaxing at home. The books will last as long as I do or my interest in the game does.

If the official WotC content was made available for puchase for the Foundry, I'd buy the content a third time. The saved time and convenience is worth it given how many hours of play time I get out of material. So I see a lot of value in digital material, even when tied to specific software or platforms.

 

[lkj]

I can sympathize with this, and I'm not married to PDFs myself (they're an aging and not-very-good technology), but I think the key issue is really simple:



WotC have shown complete willingness to shut down digital services people have spent a lot of money on, and other services/websites which probably cost them peanuts to keep up, have likewise been casually shut down.

They refuse to make any promises on the subject, and there's no particular reason to believe that once they're "done" with 5E, that they'll actually ever allow long-term store-able digital copies of 5E stuff to be created by D&D Beyond or Roll 20 or whatever, despite people having paid hundreds of dollars for digital 5E materials. D&D Beyond have said that if they ever shut down, if you use your app and download all the books before they shut down, you'll still have access via that, but obviously if you then had to wipe your phone or whatever, that would be that. You'd have no legal way to get the stuff back (and on Apple, perhaps no way at all without jailbreaking the phone, though I dunno), unless you had a backup and were able to sideload it back on to your phone/tablet, and that actually worked (which it might not, depending on how it was all set up).

I do think it's likely that when 5E is done, WotC will release PDFs of all the books via DMs Guild, but given their pricing on 4E books, you'd likely be looking at spending hundreds of dollars to get stuff you already had.

People want PDFs for a lot of reasons, but I think this is the most common one - the ability to legally and straightforwardly back up their books in an era when that should be trivial.

Yep. I think this is a completely reasonable concern and a good reason, as a consumer, to want a pdf. I was specifically responding to the idea that WotC is being completely clueless about the importance of digital mediums by not offering them. As an 'archival' copy, they make a lot of sense. But, as you note, as an active electronic medium, they're pretty out of date. There are just much better ways to deliver content electronically.

That's not to say that WotC has no reason to provide them. Making consumers happy is a strong reason. I presume that, given they do provide older material in pdf form, they've done their own calculus with regard to providing pdfs of current material. And, for the moment, they've decided it's not worth it. I know there have been very lengthy discussions on the board about whether they have made the right decision. I don't really have an opinion on that. I just don't have the information to evaluate their decision from a business perspective.

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[Ruin Explorer]

But, as you note, as an active electronic medium, they're pretty out of date. There are just much better ways to deliver content electronically.

I definitely agree. App-delivery method that is used by Beyond's app is one of them - I find it vastly better than using PDFs (on any reader) on Android/Chromebook. But when they shut down, unless they do something very clever, which seems unlikely, as it would require spending money when they're shutting down, it's just a matter of time before that content is lost.

Based on the recent WotC survey, I'd say 6E or something like it cannot actually be that far away, either. It sounds particularly like they're interested in entirely occupying the same space that Beyond/Roll 20 are, and then expanding considerably beyond that space. So this may well be an issue sooner rather than later.

That's not to say that WotC has no reason to provide them.

Well, I don't doubt they'll provide them - when 5E is done, and via DM's Guild, forcing anyone who wants them to re-buy them.

That's the key issue for me - I don't expect WotC to just let the material be lost, like some companies might (even big ones), but rather to not let Beyond/Roll 20/etc. provide long-term/archival copies, even though the material has already been paid for.

I don't think anyone would be particularly talking about PDFs if there was a good prospect of archival-style copies via other digital methods. No-one loves that ancient format that much.

 

[lkj]

I definitely agree. App-delivery method that is used by Beyond's app is one of them - I find it vastly better than using PDFs (on any reader) on Android/Chromebook. But when they shut down, unless they do something very clever, which seems unlikely, as it would require spending money when they're shutting down, it's just a matter of time before that content is lost.

Based on the recent WotC survey, I'd say 6E or something like it cannot actually be that far away, either. It sounds particularly like they're interested in entirely occupying the same space that Beyond/Roll 20 are, and then expanding considerably beyond that space. So this may well be an issue sooner rather than later.



Well, I don't doubt they'll provide them - when 5E is done, and via DM's Guild, forcing anyone who wants them to re-buy them.

That's the key issue for me - I don't expect WotC to just let the material be lost, like some companies might (even big ones), but rather to not let Beyond/Roll 20/etc. provide long-term/archival copies, even though the material has already been paid for.

I don't think anyone would be particularly talking about PDFs if there was a good prospect of archival-style copies via other digital methods. No-one loves that ancient format that much.

That's all fair enough. Though I don't get the same impression from the survey at all. I guess we'll see!

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[Ruin Explorer]

Though I don't get the same impression from the survey at all.

You didn't think the constant detailed questioning about how you play D&D post-COVID, and particularly how you play D&D via online tools and stuff, both as a player and a DM suggested an interest in that sphere?

And the only way they could cleanly get into that sphere is with a new edition which they didn't license out to Roll 20/Beyond/etc.