WotC is *NOT* Evil: THE FINALE

[Wik]

I don't know, man - your second post seems to me like you're drawing a line in the sand. This really is a "what part of no didn't you understand?" sort of thing, to put it bluntly.

the fact is, if they encourage players to do this sort of thing, what they are essentially doing is legally allowing their art to basically float on the internet for free. While you can say it's harmless, they have no legal redress if they find that Joe Blo has ripped images off your site for use in some product of his own - after all, you could have improperly claimed license over those images (they can't monitor every website, after all). They could, however, go after Joe Blo if he took the images off THEIR site.

And this is irrelevant of customer service. If I run a burger company, I still don't give the customers the recipe to my burger. Or, more to the point, I don't say to a guy "hey, yeah, name your burger 'the wik burger' and give it to your friends, that's perfectly fine" because, well, I have a brand to protect.

 

[Fifth Element]

So yes, while they have EVERY right to say no...that doesn't mean they should. Especially considering that I wasn't exactly asking them for the family farm...

You realize that they have every right to do so, but when they do so, you react belligerently and then expect them to listen to you? I don't get it.

 

[Pbartender]

Surely you can understand why a "No, you can't have it cuz it's MINE" response was less than ideal?

No, honestly, I can't. This is America. What's mine is mine. What's yours is yours. I don't have to share, if I don't want to, and neither do they.

I had even ACCEPTED their judgement, but I wanted to know WHY.

There's a very simple reason that they likely expected to be blatantly obvious to anyone and everyone...

Namely, that this is how they earn a living. If they gave it all out for free, the employees at Wizards of the Coast would soon be unable to pay their bills.

What would you expect Colonel Sanders to say, if you asked him to give you the recipe of his eleven herbs and spices?

 

[Wik]

What would you expect Colonel Sanders to say, if you asked him to give you the recipe of his eleven herbs and spices?

"Sure, I'll tell you... just get me out of this *bang! bang!* friggin' coffin first!"

 

[Gloomshroud]

Do you really expect them to react well to comments like this? Their first response was unequivocal, and your response was belligerent. You don't have any right to demand an explanation of their IP policies, and writing things like this is just going to make them stop listening to you entirely. People writing aggressive and demanding emails are not worth anyone's time.

There's no way you're going to get a company to comment on its IP policies by sending an email to their customer service. It's just not going to happen. They don't need an excuse, and they don't owe you an explanation.

I'd suggest changing the thread title to something less inflammatory and more accurate. I see one party being unreasonable in that email exchange, and it isn't WotC.

Thank you for replying! Yes, I was really belligerent. I make no excuse for it, either. As a customer, I expect to be treated with courtesy (which there was plent of, as you can see) and understanding. I am not arguing that they have the RIGHT to do so. I UNDERSTAND THEY DON'T *HAVE* TO DO IT! That's not the point. The point I'm making is that they were unreasonable in their offhanded dismissal.

Unfortunately, although I dislike people in general not giving valid reasons for actions, S&B is right - they essentially told you no because it is ours. There is no reason entered into because they do not have to give one. They have the power to say no over their own IP.

Hopefully as renau1g stated they may get around to updating the Fan Site Kit (I honestly think there should be 1 per world and generic one) but until then you can perhaps find real world images that help you - for example the Atacama desert in Chile is as barren as you can get and scenes from Machupichu or other Incan/Mayan/Aztec cities or buildings would go a long way to give great examples of cities. As well as Morocco.

Run the images through some Photoshop/Gimp filters and see what you can come up with.

D

This is perhaps the most constructive post yet. Again, I do understand that they don't have to because they own it. But, I didn't HAVE to share my sandwhich with my brother...but I did because I cared. Same thing here. If they REALLY cared about their customers, don't you think they'd be a bit more open?

 

[Mad Hamish]

a) if something is put up on a website other people can grab the picture from the website and use it as they will
b) we don't know what contracts are between artists and WOTC so they may not be able to grant permission for this or it may cost them additional money
c) getting on your high horse because somebody else makes a perfectly legal decision not to do you a favour isn't exactly speaking well for your maturity.

 

[Mad Hamish]

ddp...

 

[Wik]

Again, I do understand that they don't have to because they own it. But, I didn't HAVE to share my sandwhich with my brother...but I did because I cared. Same thing here. If they REALLY cared about their customers, don't you think they'd be a bit more open?

Here's the thing. There are always going to be people who say "how it stands now is not enough". Now matter how good the customer service is, it's not good enough. In this case, you are asking for something that they do not want to give you, for legal reasons (and, in my mind, perfectly legit legal reasons). When you DEMAND to know why - and this is exactly what you did - they shrugged and said "Can't tell you".

I mean, what you're basically asking is "can I have something for nothing?" and they say "no". You then ask "why" in a belligerant manner. The guy you're asking can either explain it to you (which is more work, and could affect his performance rating in his job - telephone-based jobs can be brutal when it comes to calls/queries "logged") or shrug and say "it's a legal matter". Were it me, I know which way I'd go.

 

[Gloomshroud]

I don't know, man - your second post seems to me like you're drawing a line in the sand. This really is a "what part of no didn't you understand?" sort of thing, to put it bluntly.

the fact is, if they encourage players to do this sort of thing, what they are essentially doing is legally allowing their art to basically float on the internet for free. While you can say it's harmless, they have no legal redress if they find that Joe Blo has ripped images off your site for use in some product of his own - after all, you could have improperly claimed license over those images (they can't monitor every website, after all). They could, however, go after Joe Blo if he took the images off THEIR site.

And this is irrelevant of customer service. If I run a burger company, I still don't give the customers the recipe to my burger. Or, more to the point, I don't say to a guy "hey, yeah, name your burger 'the wik burger' and give it to your friends, that's perfectly fine" because, well, I have a brand to protect.

Hmm. Well put. I don't really have anything for this comment. I will say, however, that I am not asking for the "recipe" for anything. I just want to, to steal your analogy, SHARE the burger I already bought with my friends.

Also, it is not using something for "nothing." I already shelled out 40 clams for the book...but I'd even be willing to PAY for the right to use a couple of those images. Also, everything I posted came from email. I work in customer service, and I'm totally familiar with call time expectancy ratings. That's not the point, either. I appreciate your comments, they are definitely bringing many things to light that I had not considered. I make no bones about being belligerent. What can I say? I was pissed! This being the case, I have sent off another email requesting to speak with a legal representative concerning this usage, as well as perhaps purchasing limited right to reproduce the images. We'll see...

 

[Riastlin]

As a lawyer (though not an IP lawyer) I'll chime in that I am absolutely certain that CSRs have been told not to discuss legal matters as simply put its not their call. Furthermore, as a lawyer, the thing I fear most is my client speaking without talking to me first as it sets off all kinds of potential problems (though of course not always). So in short, I don't fault the CSR for not discussing the legal matters.

As to the IP use, I think one problem could be the fact that you were planning to post the images on Obsidian Portal. While you would not be profiting from this use of WoTC's IP, Obsidian Portal most certainly might. First, they'd be getting money from you for the use of the images. Second, other users who see the image and think "Hey cool" then add their own purchases of upgraded accounts. Next OP might be able to sell more advertising as their site draws more hits, thus making more money. Finally, you would then be putting the WoTC IP up in a public arena where it could potentially be copied by others and then redistributed, etc.

While I think that technically merely copying the images in and of itself constitutes copyright infringement (I could be wrong here though) it would certainly be a lot less harmful to WotC if you merely displayed said images at the game table.

So in short, I'm really not at all surprised that a) you were turned down and b) the CSR would not discuss the reason (odds are he doesn't even know the exact reason, kinda like the cashier at Wal-Mart won't be able to tell you why a particular fishing pole costs more at Wal-Mart than at K Mart.