WotC: Let's Improve the Weapon List, Shall We?

[Baby Samurai]

In 3e it's a kid's toy, doing only 1d3 subdual damage. Why can't it be a real weapon?

There's always that dubious whip-dagger.

 

[Aloïsius]

I just wish they create good whips in 4e. A whip useable as a good weapon.

In 3e it's a kid's toy, doing only 1d3 subdual damage. Why can't it be a real weapon?

As I always play spellcasters I don't care much about weapons. Until as a DM I wanted BBEGirl wielding a whip (with the leather outfit and all that BDSM look). But that whip is just useless... Even a flaming whip, at the level she was supposed to come wasn't much of a threat.

Just create a feat : whip strangulation. Grapple at range, constitution damage per round or per attack.

 

[delericho]

** Greatbow ala English/Welsh longbow for bigger-then-big longbows (likely exotic, though really just martial)
** Maul for 2H hammers.
** Greatmace for 2H maces.
** Bolt-thrower for a big honkin' crossbow.
** Sarissa-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of reach-spears (martial longspear with 15 foot reach)
** Boar Spear-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of damage-dealing spears (martial Spear with more damage).

The Greatbow from history would seem to be the perfect example of a weapon requiring such intense training as to be Exotic. Besides, the stats would require it be Exotic for balance reasons. More powerful Martial crossbows would probably be a good thing. Oh, and it might be no bad thing to include Simple and Martial firearms with stats comparable to those of crossbows of various sorts.

I'm not keen on the idea of a weapon, especially a Martial weapon, with greater than 10 ft. reach. It doesn't feel right from a mechanical point of view.

Hand-and-a-half weapons:
** Mace and Chain, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half flails.
** Dwarven Battlehammer, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half hammers
** Dwarven Combat Mace, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half maces
** Dwarven Military Pick, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half picks

Sounds good, except maybe the pick. I certainly wouldn't call them "Dwarven...", but that's mostly because I hate Weapon Familiarity, and so don't want weapons with racial names in them any longer.

** Light Flails. They appear to be missing.

Not sure if there's a (mechanical) spot for them. But, I don't have the book in front of me, so can't be sure about that.

** Throwing Daggers. Something like 30 ft. range with a 20/x2 crit and piercing/slashing, but useful because they can be concealed as with normal daggers.

Why not just use darts, and adjust the favour text?

As regards throwing weapons, the biggest thing that 3.5e is missing is a single magic item: the Bracers of Throwing (or similar). The cost would be 2,000gp (or similar), it would take up the bracers slot (obviously). The power of said item would be to accept further enhancements as does a weapon. Then, whenever the wearer throws a weapon, the bracers transfer the enhancements to said weapon, the same way magic bows do for arrows they fire.

As it stands, it isn't possible to build a thrown-weapon specialist in 3.5e, because the costs of enhancing multiple thrown weapons are prohibitive. This item closes that hole.

** Harpoons. Not exactly a staple in Medieval Europe, they would still be useful in a fantasy campaign, and make a great addition alongside the very few entangling weapons the PHB has (the Net, the Whip and the Bolas).

**Broadswords. A sword you can stab someone with.

Likewise, aren't these just spears and either longswords or sabres with slightly different flavour text?

** A Polearm which deals Bludgeoning damage - Long Hammers were indeed used in the Middle Ages.

** Mancatchers. On the same note as Harpoon, but decidedly more common in medieval Europe, Mancatchers would make a great addition to the entangling weapons in the PHB.

Agreed about the Lucern Hammer. IIRC, Kuo-Toas make use of a polearm that is essentially the mancatcher, and I think stats may appear in the Monster Manual. Even if not, I think it would be a good choice of weapon to add to the Exotic weapons list.

Any hopes of seeing a wider variety of weapons in the PHB? Anyone hope even a fraction of this will replace the crapfest of 3e's silly "double weapons"?

I quite like the double weapons. Certainly, they're no more silly than characters with Monkey Grip and Exotic Weapon Proficiency using two Ogre-sized bastard swords.

To be honest, I expect the weapons list to be unchanged, or perhaps reduced slightly, with the new edition. I don't think that's actually a terrible thing; although there are some gaps in the existing list, it's plenty long enough to start with, and adding new items is easy. Besides, it's not as though many of these weapons actually get used - players tend to find the combinations that work best, and then stick with those almost exclusively IME.

My pet peeve related to weapons is the kama... So why are there two different weapons, the sickle and kama, with one simple and one exotic?

Because it's a Monk weapon, with which they can use Flurry of Blows. All those weapons (except quarterstaff) are listed as Exotic Weapons, despite the fact that they would be more appropriately placed as Simple Weapons, and despite the fact that Monks, the only people who gain any special benefit from them, are already explicitly proficient in their use.

So, those weapons really should be re-assigned, if not removed outright.

 

[Wepwawet]

Just create a feat : whip strangulation. Grapple at range, constitution damage per round or per attack.

Oooooh! Sweet!

But anyway, I wish they come up with a usable whip in the core rules

 

[Imp]

Most of this sounds pretty good to me, though broadsword -> longsword and machete -> shortsword with cutting damage – honestly though I think having most swords only doing cutting or stabbing damage in terms of DR is wonky, and a subject of a houserule of mine – if it becomes super clear that stabbing something does work, and cutting something does not, or vice versa, most sword designs will accommodate you, even though for ex. the katana was overwhelmingly designed for cutting. (I don't houserule scimitars & rapiers this way, FWIW.)

Re double weapons, who knows how 4E even treats two-weapon fighting? That said I like the option of borderline ludicrous exotic weapons in my fantasy, so long as they aren't completely ludicrous (dire flail) and they stay exotic (spiked chain) and they don't suck (most of the others).

I like, and have advanced, the idea of using "advanced weapon proficiencies" to do exotic things with normal weapons (which would cover the various monk weapons) and also grandfathering in some martial weapons as impromptu simple weapons, so for example an NPC farmer can pick up a wood-axe, and while it won't be any more effective in his hands than a sickle (its nearest simple-weapon analogue), it won't make him eat a -4 penalty to hit, either. But with 4E hints of having weapon-specific tricks & benefits for fighters I cannot know if any of that makes sense in the new system.

 

[D.Shaffer]

Y'know, Wizbang Dustyboots' thread about a genuine Sea Drake Missing from the rules plus myself brushing up my Weapon Groups rules for an upcoming campaign got me thinking: There are quite a few seemingly basic weapons missing from the rules.

For what it's worth, many of these HAVE shown up in 3rd...it's just that they were spread out over multiple supplements. I wouldnt mind at all if they put them all in on the PHB to begin with.

A brief brainstorm came up with the following:

** Greatbow ala English/Welsh longbow for bigger-then-big longbows (likely exotic, though really just martial) - Greatbow, Complete Warrior
** Maul for 2H hammers. - Greathammer-Races of Stone
** Greatmace for 2H maces.
** Bolt-thrower for a big honkin' crossbow. Great Crossbow - Races of Stone
** Sarissa-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of reach-spears (martial longspear with 15 foot reach)
** Boar Spear-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of damage-dealing spears (martial Spear with more damage). Greatspear-Complete Warrior

Hand-and-a-half weapons:
** Mace and Chain, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half flails.
** Dwarven Battlehammer, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half hammers -Maul-Complete Warrior
** Dwarven Combat Mace, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half maces -Warmace-Complete Warrior
** Dwarven Military Pick, ala the Dwarven Waraxe for those using hand-and-a-half picks Dire Pick, Complete Warrior

** Light Flails. They appear to be missing.

** A Polearm which deals Bludgeoning damage - Long Hammers were indeed used in the Middle Ages.

** Harpoons. Harpoon-Frostburn

** Mancatchers. Mancatcher-Complete Warrior

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

They should really get rid of the racial weapons; they're silly and not all that utilitarian. I mean, who really needs a pair of Gnomish swordchucks?

 

[Darkwolf71]

They should really get rid of the racial weapons; they're silly and not all that utilitarian. I mean, who really needs a pair of Gnomish swordchucks?

A Gnomish Swordchucker.

Seriously, Racial weapons and Weapon Familiarity act as a kind of balance to the whole free feat Humans get in 3e. I know the feat is supposed to be a balanceing factor for the other racial abilities, but really feats are precious in 3e. Many feat-heavy character builds that would be fun to play as a demi-human are made human instead for that single factor. Of course if rumors are right chars will get more feats in 4e so this may no longer be a factor. In which case I could see the elimination of at least Weapon Familiarity.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Just create a feat : whip strangulation. Grapple at range, constitution damage per round or per attack.

Hmm... Maybe the condition summary needs to include an entry for "Choking" (insert your preferred word here...).

It would cover all forms of choking, including strangulation and perhaps just plain holding your breath.

Although drowning probably needs a step up-- it's worse than just holding your breath, it's filling your lungs with a foreign substance.

Yes, there's definitely a condition track there.

 

[The Lost Muse]

Does the caber get no love here?