WotC: Let's Improve the Weapon List, Shall We?

[Hussar]

Just for the record, a Lucern Hammer isn't really a hammer. It's not blunt and isn't really designed to bludgeon something. It's more of a 'pole-pick', only with a multi-pronged spike. It's more like a can-opener than a hammer.

Heh, it wasn't until the Unearthed Arcana came out that we learned that and had to take them away from all the clerics.

 

[Nyaricus]

Enough of that, I want the Lucerne Hammer and the Bec De Corbin back in D&D!!

Holy crap.

I was doing some research today on polearms, and *@!%@*#%!~!!! is there a ton of stuff we D&D players are missing out on in 3.Xe! Some of the stuff doesn't even really make sense, either - like how the Glaive does a 1d10/x3 slashing damage when it was really just a single-bladed knife on a long pole. The voulge would be much more appropriate to fill that damage-slot, what with the design being a meat-cleaver (aka: small axe) on a pole.

Furthermore, we are missing out on the awesome variety of weapons the guisarme/bill hook gave us. Basically, the guisarme/bill hook was a large hook mounted on the back-side of a polearm for dismounting riders. The basic weapon of either type was fairly distinct, but eventually they were just a simple "add-on" which made polearms an incredibly versatile weapon.

Also, many different pole-arms had a spear-tip added to the top to give the weilder the ability to set it against a rider charging at him, or to keep a combatant at bay until he could use the REAL buisness-end of his polearm effectively.

Now, this is again just from a brief once-over of a few decent (but not great) looking sites for polearm information, and yet I've come up with the following short list of weapons which fill interesting slots in D&D's PHB weapon area.

Here's the basic two facts about polearms:

1) they were primarily developed to counter mounted riders by either keeping them at bay with a wall of spear-tips (which were at the ends of many polearms) or by being able to rip mounted fighters off with the hooks featured on many polearms, or used in melee to fight infantry from afar for as long as possible, to keep them from closing in.
2) Polearms were, almost to a weapon, initially common farm tools stuck on the end of a long pole with a fancy-smancy sounding name (usually French-sounding, I've noticed)

Here are some main types of polearms I found today:

Bill-guisarme - this was a catch-all name for a variety of weapons which developed all at once. It basically combines a chopping axe-blade, a spear-tip mounted at the top, and a tripping hook opposite the axe-blade. It also had a variety of spikes of various lenghts affixed to the weapon-head in order to get the most "bang for the buck". This weapon was primarily used for chopping at a foe, dismounting a rider and lastly stabbing out with the spear-tip.

Fauchard-fork - the basic Fauchard polearm was essentially a sickle-blade affixed to a long haft, and it was noted for being rather in-effective as the edge of the blade was on the inside curve, and thus dismounting riders was not effective with this weapon. However, with the addition of a spear-tip to the back-side of the blade, it added a degree of versatility. This weapon was primarily used to slash at foes from afar with it's sickle-blade.

Glaive-guisarme - the basic glaive is essentially a single-edged knife blade which tapers to a point which was used as a spear. It was useful for slashing and cutting enemies with the knife-edge, and stabbing at enemies with the knife/spear-tip. The guisarme hook was a useful addition to the back-side of the weapon to rip enemies mounted on horses off their steeds. This weapon was primarily used as a spear which could also slice-open enemies, with a nifty little hook at the back to rip riders off their horses.

Guisarme-voulge - the voulge was a meat-cleaver on a long stick. The blade angled down, towards the user, for maximum chopping action, and a spear-tip was affixed to the top to keep enemies at bay. Again, the guisarme hook was a very useful addition to this weapon which it was on. This weapon was used to cleave enemies firstly, and stab and hook them secondly.

Halberd - halberds are an iconic German polearm which saw much use all over Europe. Not necessarily a reach weapon, they still had a fairly long, two-handed haft which led to a downard-angeld chopping axe-blade, with a spike or hook at the back and a tapered spear point at the top. It was a handy "three-in-one" weapon, and it was likely the most wide-spread because it was long, but not too long like other polearms (cheaper to find the right lumber), and was fairly simply and straight-forward to use. Primarily a chopping weapon, it was also versatile in it's secondary functions as well.

Lucern Hammer - as has been mentioned before, this was the can-opener of the polearms. As much of a pick as it was a hammer, this three-pronged bad boy could sunder a suit of plate mail with a blow. It generally featured a long spike or hook at the back and a long tapered spear-tip at the top. Primarily this was used to rip open heavy plate armour. The bec de Corbin was much like this weapon, except the hammer-head was generally a flat sledge-style, and the spear-tip and back-sike were less prominent.

Ranseur - the ransuer was much like the spear in look and in use, save for a prominent hilt which took the form of two spikes or hooks which generally swept back towards the weilder. This weapon was purportedly useful for disarming and tripping foes, which is why this weapon is more polearm then spear (in the contemporary sense of the word, since spears *are* polearms, just a very basic class fo them). This weapon was primarily for tripped and disarming opponents and stabbing them as needed.

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As you can see, I've found out quite a bit about quite a bit, and it seems that WotC should really look at what awesome additions they can add to their awesome list of 4e weapons

cheers,
--N

 

[Hussar]

Dragon did a bit on polearms a few years back that you should check out Ny. Has most of the stuff you're looking for. Excellent article.

I gotta admit, if the 4e designers would stop making swords the be all and end all of weapons in D&D, I'd be ecstatic. I'm so tired of a second class weapon like a sword being the best weapon in the game. Swords weren't the main weapon of use - spears and polearms were and there's a whole bunch of excellent reasons why.

Swords, by and large, were the weapon of last resort on the battlefield.

 

[Arkhandus]

One weapon they're missing that I really want to see, is yet another common farm tool. I want to see the machete as a viable weapon in D&D, the weapon that's been the staple of many forms of martial arts (Filipino martial arts comes to mind), angry peasants and horror movie serial killers. Because machetes are so cool to use.

Here ya go, chummer, from my own 'master weapons list'. Though I'm still on the fence as to whether or not it should be useable for Piercing damage as well, since I can't remember if a traditional machede/machete or a Filipino bolo (sp?) is supposed to be an effective stabbing weapon as well as slashing.

[B]Small Martial Melee Weapons (Light Martial Melee Weapons in 3.5)[/B]
Machede			7 gp	2 lbs.	AC 6	Hardness 10	HP 2	Break DC 17
	2d3 (Slashing)				T/C 19-20/x2		----------------
	*Also represents the bolo.

 

[Imp]

I gotta admit, if the 4e designers would stop making swords the be all and end all of weapons in D&D, I'd be ecstatic. I'm so tired of a second class weapon like a sword being the best weapon in the game. Swords weren't the main weapon of use - spears and polearms were and there's a whole bunch of excellent reasons why.

Swords, by and large, were the weapon of last resort on the battlefield.

I'd like to see spears get some love, too, but they're already a solid battlefield weapon in 3e. That is, if you are talking power for the gold piece. An army of 1st-level warriors, I'd give them spears over swords any day – the money saved can go to armor, or more warriors, and spears are nearly as effective.

They're trending better, at least. 1e spears were pretty miserable.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Dragon did a bit on polearms a few years back that you should check out Ny. Has most of the stuff you're looking for. Excellent article.

I gotta admit, if the 4e designers would stop making swords the be all and end all of weapons in D&D, I'd be ecstatic. I'm so tired of a second class weapon like a sword being the best weapon in the game. Swords weren't the main weapon of use - spears and polearms were and there's a whole bunch of excellent reasons why.

Swords, by and large, were the weapon of last resort on the battlefield.

Yes, you are right.

But in D&D, you are very unlikely to be on a battlefield. You are in personal combat with a small number of allies and (usually) a small number of enemies.

At least in GURPS 4e, swords are better than other one handed weapons. Other one-handed weapons have heavy heads or are unbalanced or whatever that makes them hard to parry with or are small so you aren't as good at it. Swords can parry and attack with no problems, and fencing weapons offer good defensive benefits.

However, swords, especially good swords, are expensive, much more so than other weapons. You could run around with a hatchet, axe, mace or whatnot and save a lot of money for armor (which is also pretty expensive). Or you could go for a spear or naginata or something two-handed like that, which would still be much, much cheaper than an actual 2-handed sword.

 

[Aloïsius]

However, swords, especially good swords, are expensive, much more so than other weapons.

*dreams about a very different magic item/economic system in D&D, where you are really HAPPY to find a masterwork sword".

 

[Hussar]

Yes, you are right.

But in D&D, you are very unlikely to be on a battlefield. You are in personal combat with a small number of allies and (usually) a small number of enemies.

At least in GURPS 4e, swords are better than other one handed weapons. Other one-handed weapons have heavy heads or are unbalanced or whatever that makes them hard to parry with or are small so you aren't as good at it. Swords can parry and attack with no problems, and fencing weapons offer good defensive benefits.

However, swords, especially good swords, are expensive, much more so than other weapons. You could run around with a hatchet, axe, mace or whatnot and save a lot of money for armor (which is also pretty expensive). Or you could go for a spear or naginata or something two-handed like that, which would still be much, much cheaper than an actual 2-handed sword.

I agree with most of that except for one part. You are in a small group, fighting a small group, but, often the enemies are not armed - they're monsters. Trying to use a sword on a bear is certainly less useful than using a spear. Now, scale the bear up several sizes to a wyvern or, well, anything Large or bigger, and a sword isn't going to do much more than make the baddie angry.

But, polearms just aren't all that sexy. That's the problem. We picture hero and nine times out of ten, he's got a sword. It's pretty ingrained.

 

[Gort]

*dreams about a very different magic item/economic system in D&D, where you are really HAPPY to find a masterwork sword".

To be honest, you'd have to make a masterwork weapon give you more than a +1 bonus to hit to make that a consideration. You'd probably need some rules for weapons breaking in normal use based on what they were hitting.

 

[Kvantum]

** Greatbow - Can be found in Complete Warrior
** Maul - Goliath Greathammer is in Races of Stone - 1d12/x4
** Bolt-thrower for a big honkin' crossbow - 2 options, the Great Crossbow in Races of Stone (2d8, 18-20/x2, full round to reload, provoking AoOs, takes both hands to shoot or -4 to attack) and the Icechucker is in Frostburn. Shoots icicles for 1d12/x3
** Sarissa-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of reach-spears (martial longspear with 15 foot reach) - this one I couldn't find
** Boar Spear-style spear to fill in the "Greatsword" category of damage-dealing spears (martial Spear with more damage) - Greatspear in Complete Warrior

Hand-and-a-half weapons:
** Mace and Chain - couldn't find an analogue
** Dwarven Battlehammer - can be found in Complete Warrior as the Maul
** Dwarven Combat Mace - also in CW, as the Warmace
** Dwarven Military Pick - Dire Pick in Complete Warrior

** Light Flails. They appear to be missing. - Yeah, missing as far as I can tell

** Throwing Daggers. Something like 30 ft. range with a 20/x2 crit and piercing/slashing, but useful because they can be concealed as with normal daggers - again, not in any WotC source that I know of.

** A Polearm which deals Bludgeoning damage - Ramhammer from Planar Handbook. 10' reach hammer, 1d10/x2 crit

** Harpoons - found in both Frostburn and Stormwrack

** Mancatchers - Complete Warrior

**Broadswords. A sword you can stab someone with - The Elven Thinblade in CW and Races of the Wild. 1d8, 18-20/x2 Piercing damage, but requires EWP. Scales up to the 2 handed but Finesse-able (!) Courtblade (1d10) and the Light lightblade (1d6)

I do agree with you on the silliness of most of the double weapons, but the vast majority of your missing categories have been filled in over the years in 3.5