WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Very much so, yes, thank you.

And, on that front... Maaaaaaybe? Like, it seems unlikely in general terms to me, but we have an obvious case of them being really weird about street dates, so the chance of their street date agreement also being weird kinda... goes up?

Exactly. Look, I'm not one to believe that WoTC is some benevolent corporation that would rather have your good will instead of finding some way to take every bit of money you have, all your possessions, your kid, your left testicle, etc. So, I think they would be pretty likely to have their lawyers create a very restrictive contract with sellers/distributers/etc. I mean, look what they intended to do with the /OGL. They basically wanted to have a right to own all the things. You really think they wouldn't want some way to hammer the hell out of any distributer that released merch before the release date WoTC set? That seller hasn't said a thing, and I'm betting it's for a good reason. Either his lawyers told him he is better off shutting up and doing what WoTC tells him, or he is in some WoTC office basement being beaten with a pillow sack full of oranges.

 

[Faolyn]

I'm confused here by why people are speaking as if Wizards had any legal claim to the cards AT ALL.

Exactly. I can understand WotC wanting the foil and boxes, because that would help to identify which distributor made the error (although... do big-time collectors normally even keep them, instead of putting the cards in a safer container?). That makes sense. But WotC acted as though Cannon would actively refuse to cooperate with that request and/or was actively involved in the distribution.

 

[Faolyn]

By seized, you mean, asked for it back in a manner he says he found intimidating (and Pinkertons showing up in suits to ask for things back does feel like something that would be intimidating to me), later talked nicely to him on the phone to explain (whether remphasizing the truth or gaslighting isn't clear), and offered compensation?

But they still took the cards. It doesn't matter if they later offered compensation--they still stole his property.

 

[Faolyn]

"Most of us" being people in D&D circles, outside the MtG community, you mean. I'm pointing out that it seems obvious that they never would have sent the Pinkertons if he hadn't posted the videos.

I'm not saying that makes their choice RIGHT or GOOD, I'm pointing out that Cannon's videos are the missing piece of the picture that was apparently confusing Levi.

How many views did that video get? Because he had something like 2k subscribers, IIRC, and it seems odd that WotC would even notice a channel that small, unless he suddenly got massive numbers of views.

 

[Cadence]

But they still took the cards. It doesn't matter if they later offered compensation--they still stole his property

"They asked him for his cards and he gave them to him" feels like not stealing?

Whether "They seemed threatening to him and asked him for his cards and he went in gave them to him" is legally stealing seems like it depends on what exactly they did, what jurisdication they were in, and how the handover worked? [Insert googling of Robbery by Intimidation and then stopping because IANAL].

 

[darjr]

"They asked him for his cards and he gave them to him" feels like not stealing?

Whether "They seemed threatening to him and asked him for his cards and he went in gave them to him" is legally stealing seems like it depends on what exactly they did, what jurisdication they were in, and how the handover worked? [Insert googling of Robbery by Intimidation and then stopping because IANAL].

Well they were not in any district they had any authority in.

 

[Faolyn]

"They asked him for his cards and he gave them to him" feels like not stealing?

Whether "They seemed threatening to him and asked him for his cards and he went in gave them to him" is legally stealing seems like it depends on what exactly they did, what jurisdication they were in, and how the handover worked? [Insert googling of Robbery by Intimidation and then stopping because IANAL].

They threatened him with the sheriff, with jail time, and with huge fines, after trying to force their way through his door and interrogating his neighbors. That's not "asking him."

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I don't think that is true. Not a lawyer, but, WoTC can have a contract with the dealer/distributor/whomever, that they are not allowed to sell the cards until a specific date or until after a certain amount of time has passed. A couple of Years ago, Ford sued Jon Cena (some wrestlers guy - I guess he is famous) for having sold his Ford GT before he was allowed to. Cena sold the GT, and he was promptly sued by Ford. Cena ended up settling with Ford, probably because his lawyers told him he is going to lose and should just settle. In any case, just because a company sells a product, doesn't mean they lose all rights to that product. The dealer Cannon bought these cards from may be under a similar contract. Cannon has nothing to do with tat, so he i fine, but to say that once the cards were sold to the dealer, WoTC had no legal claims to them "at all" is not completely accurate.

Note that Ford went after Cena, not the guy he sold the car to. Just because Cena broke his contract with Ford, it didn't change that ownership of the car had been legally transferred.

 

[Mannahnin]

But they still took the cards. It doesn't matter if they later offered compensation--they still stole his property.

They did not steal anything. Let's not fall down the rabbit hole of ever-increasing exaggerations.

How many views did that video get? Because he had something like 2k subscribers, IIRC, and it seems odd that WotC would even notice a channel that small, unless he suddenly got massive numbers of views.

Good question! Perhaps that's indicative that they did indeed suddenly get massive numbers of views and get shared all over social media, because such a huge spoiler that early basically never happens.

Well they were not in any district they had any authority in.

Wut. They don't have any legal authority anywhere. Cadence's mention of jurisdiction has to do with what the local laws and statutes say, how they define things like "criminal threatening", or "theft by intimidation", or any number of other crimes which WotC would be relying on a large, well-known, and professional agency NOT to cross the line into.

They threatened him with the sheriff, with jail time, and with huge fines, after trying to force their way through his door and interrogating his neighbors. That's not "asking him."

Telling someone that they may be criminally liable is not the same form of threatening as telling someone to hand over their wallet or get assaulted. Putting your foot in a door is not the same thing as a home invasion.

You seem to be giving full credence to the more dramatic and negative details Cannon has furnished, while disregarding the less damning ones. Like that the agents did indeed ask. Or that after they made his wife upset he told them to be more respectful and step outside, and they obeyed both instructions. Neither of which would follow if they were trying to force their way into his home, physically intimidate or rob him.

 

[darjr]

Wut. They don't have any legal authority anywhere..

Yes, that was my point.