WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Bedrockgames]

Sorry, tangled up a couple thoughts there; the stealing bit was actually from a different post than yours.

No worries

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

They threatened him with the sheriff, with jail time, and with huge fines, after trying to force their way through his door and interrogating his neighbors. That's not "asking him."

Supposedly they threatened him. That's an allegation Cannon made. I don't see him as a trustworthy and credible source for the reasons I previously posted.

 

[Mannahnin]

This doesn't paint a very good picture of the agents behavior. We don't fully know what happened. But that they had to be asked to step outside out of concerns they were upsetting his wife, suggests they were at least making the household uncomfortable. And of course they would obey the request to step outside because it is his house, they have to.

"of course they would obey the request" is completely incompatible with the more extreme characterizations of their behavior we've seen folks use. Phrases like goons, physically threatened, home invasion, stole, seized, etc.

I don't think we can accuse any individuals of wrong doing here until we know all the facts but I really don't think any of this improves WOTC's reputation here (especially on the heels of the whole OGL thing).

That said, very possible facts change things. Very possible his account is either not 100% what happened, contains errors or even intentional inaccuracies. But the same is true of WOTC. And we at least have confirmation that these people did in fact show up at his house and it was related to some magic cards. I still don't like the idea of a game company using a security agency in this way.

I generally try to treat people as rational actors and try to contextualize their actions on that basis.

I think WotC's actions mostly make sense, though it still seems a bit excessive to send the Pinkertons prior to trying a signature receipt overnight letter. We're missing some data on whether they made any other attempts beyond the phone calls he didn't answer. If they indeed reached out electronically (via Youtube or email) and he ignored and/or deleted their messages, sending people makes more sense.

I think Cannon's actions mostly make sense. I think his posting the original spoiler videos was questionable and he knew it was questionable, but he decided to take the gamble for publicity. The reports that he's changed his story over time from essentially "I was able to get these cards early because I know a guy" to "I buy from a friend who's more of a Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh guy and he sold these to me by mistake" strike me as a bit off. The fact that he bought 22 booster boxes, 792 packs, also trips my "something funny going on here" sense, as I'm not clear why he'd make that big an investment in a regular Standard-legal set. The size of the purchase implies to me (though perhaps I'm off base) that he was deliberately buying the unreleased set because he wanted to scoop the entire internet and put his channel on the map. That's a deduction, but it seems to fit the facts we have.

To me, the tactics describe sound like what Repo Men do when, well, repossessing property (except they have a legal claim to it). Come in hard, keep talking, don't do anything technically illegal, but steamroll right over the subject's idea of what proper and predictable behavior is as if you've got much more authority than you do. Half authority-intimidation, half confidence game.

I'm comfortable with calling it "seizing", myself; it's loaded, absolutely, and loaded the right amount for how I see it, though it's not a legal seizure.

Raid or theft, though, are... it's not those.

I think we're pretty close to agreement on this, though I wouldn't characterize it as seizure, since they had to ask him for the cards, and when he told them to go outside they apparently went. I suspect you're pretty on target in describing the general tone and approach, though.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

We won't know until we get more information from people who aren't WOTC or Cannon.

You know, I'd totally agree, but the problem is that the other people there were Pinkerton. I think people are less likely to believe Pinkerton than WoTC, so we may never know... Unless there is some Ring door cam video that will later be released showing Cannon's wife abusing both the Pinkerton agents and Cannon. It's possible.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Yeah, that's what I said.

So you agree that WotC had no claim to Cannon's cards?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Either way, some went out too soon because one or more people messed up - but how does that become "stolen property" instead of "breach of contract" for the person(s) who broke the embargo?

Maybe WoTC didn't know how Cannon got the cards until they were able to ask him? All they know is some random YouTuber made a few videos with ards they are not supposed to be able to buy just yet. Is it possible for someone to get the cards by stealing them (not talking about Cannon)? Yes. Is it possible someone got them by mistake (still not talking about Cannon)? Yes. Until they are given information on how the cards got out, theft is a possible consideration.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

So you agree that WotC had no claim to Cannon's cards?

I'm sorry, did you read my post? The one you quoted from? Read a little further, not just the part you quoted. It'll answer any questions you have regarding this particular topic.
Edit: Actually, after re-reading my own post, I can see why it's a bit confusing. No, WoTC doesn't have a claim to Cannon's cards. Once he purchased them, they were his. They do have an interest in recouping those cards, though. THey may not want the cards out yet. they asked him for the cards, offered him the actual cards he intended to buy, and he gave the cards back. My post, regarding WoTC's possible legal claim is between WoTC and the person Cannon bought the cards from.

 

[LeviKornelsen]

The reports that he's changed his story over time from essentially "I was able to get these cards early because I know a guy" to "I buy from a friend who's more of a Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh guy and he sold these to me by mistake" strike me as a bit off. T

These don't strike me so much as a credibility problem as they read as "Story changed so as not to snitch out my buddy, after realizing that's what I was doing".

 

[Mannahnin]

These don't strike me so much as a credibility problem as they read as "Story changed so as not to snitch out my buddy, after realizing that's what I was doing".

Which is a totally understandable and rational action. It makes sense. But it also reduces his own appearance of having deliberately done something shady. Cui bono?

 

[Umbran]

It is not a matter of belief - you are supporting their actions with your posts, whether you meant to or not.

Mod Note:
The attempt at rhetorical judo is not appreciated. Who people do, or do not, support is not determined by your assertion, or agreement with you. You are not judge and jury on the matter, so please do not speak as if you are.