WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[Azzy]

Serious talk, but as much as Star Wars D20 was derided, and rightfully so, VP/WP and Class Defense vs Armor DR was a far more satisfying system than traditional D&D has ever done with HP/AC. But sacred cows and slaying thereof, etc. etc.

I have mixed opinions on that system as implemented, but I agree that overall it fits better thematically. I really think the 5e DMG failed DMs in not providing more options for different styles of play (of which this is one example).

 

[Micah Sweet]

I have mixed opinions on that system as implemented, but I agree that overall it fits better thematically. I really think the 5e DMG failed DMs in not providing more options for different styles of play (of which this is one example).

An excellent example of an optional rule that I think would have really gotten some traction.

 

[Voadam]

Interesting! How does poison damage work?

Same as all damage, it takes away some of your game mechanic hp with no other effect until your hit points reach 0, then it has a more noticeable effect.

As I've said, some of what hit points are  has to be meat-based, so I support slower natural healing. It wouldn't hurt to have more long-term effects in the game too.

I often conceptualize the last hp as generally representing some actual physical damage.

I actually often conceptualize a lot of damage as physically happening as part of the narrative for NPCs or as partial descriptions of wounds to PCs, but I try to leave some narrative room in the descriptions for everybody not to be narratively crippled in the middle of the fight. And room for the game mechanics to do their magic for combat pacing of the game.

 

[Umbran]

If someone actually gets thrown through a wall and lands on a bunch of jagged rocks, they're dead.

Meaning, we don't narrate them being thrown through a wall and landing on a bunch of jagged rocks until they get to a blow that takes them down.

 

[Voadam]

Anything's possible, I suppose. I guess 2009 was just the watershed moment when they finally got it right huh?

3e had a level based natural healing rate per day. A big increase over AD&D which had a per day flat rate with con coming in after a week's rest.

3.5 Unearthed Arcana had an optional rule of reserve points for healing one point per minute of rest up to your full normal hp limit per day.

4e and 5e both have full healing at long rests as core.

The progression has been going throughout the editions.

 

[Voadam]

Vitality and Wound points were made OGC in 3.5 Unearthed Arcana as well. They were used in a number of d20 games besides d20Star Wars. I vaguely remember early Spycraft and Stargate SG-1 having them, maybe d20 Farscape?

The system looks like it would mostly work for 5e as well for those who would like something along more defined physical wound lines.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The one thing I'll say I've struggled with in 5e that used to be much easier is having characters build ties in a town. In AD&D, you didn't heal to full after a night of sleep and instead only healed like 2 or 3 HP per day, possibly plus your CON modifier? I forget, it's been awhile. This created more downtime, so IME players were more likely to get into town activities to fill the time. In 5e? A good night's sleep heals all wounds, so it's on to the next location!

I'm not saying these social activities in town are impossible in 5e and I've had characters in 5e pursue normal activities in town such as becoming a brewer, it just doesn't seem to come as naturally as it did in 2e when the game rules sorta enforced players had to spend time resting between adventures.

I'd have to say I don't think this has anything to do with healing. Sure, the slower healing forces you to stay in one location, but that doesn't mean that can't be "Okay, you guys spend a month in Little Bend, where do you go after that" and just breeze right past it.

The bigger motivator is player investment. Make people interested in doing things that you can do in town. If you have the time for it, have them interact with NPCs who give "micro-quests" or who talk to the PCs about their problems and seek advice. If you don't have time for that, you can still reward them for things like spending time at the local temple. I know you shouldn't bribe players in the purist sense, but if the cleric says "I'm working at my temple" and you say "Okay, cool." and nothing comes from it, you are telling the player that isn't important. But, if you use something like the piety system, or you give them something like "the next time you cast a spell and roll a 1 on damage, you can re-roll it, because you have built up additional holy power" then you are telling them that not only is this important narratively, but encouraging them to pursue these actions beyond "I spend gold at the tavern partying for a week while I recover."

One thing I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing from One D&D, though I worry about disappointment, are the new Bastion Rules, which will encourage players to make a home base. That will really drive some great RP, I think.

 

[Chaosmancer]

On the Hit Points debate, this is one of the few times I tend to find myself agreeing with @Oofta. DnD is a world of magic, a world with magic baked into the air and the earth, the plants which are eaten by herbivores and therefore in the herbivores eaten by carnivores. EVERYTHING is magical. It just is.

And this is why I just lean into. The PCs are able to heal more rapidly than normal, just like many heroes. People can lift and throw and move far more, jump farther, the physical capabilities of the average person are just increased. And it makes DnD less like the real world, and I like that. Every game I've played that cared about being "realistic" about injuries just left me or another player with long stretches of boredom, or the GM scrambling to offer us magical super-healing so we could get back to the adventure. And for the average player? DnD's model just works really well.

 

[humble minion]

I've said it before, but I ran a long d20 Star Wars campaign with VP/WP and it did basically nothing I wanted it to, and created all sorts of undesirable side-effects. I can't blame all the issues on VP/WP because a lot of the problems were to do with how this tacked-on subsystem interacted with what was basically a poorly ported 3e game (and one, in fact, where the weaknesses of 3e were exacerbated by the lack of magic items and a DR implementation of armour breaking the combat maths), but regardless, the whole thing was a mechanical train wreck, running it was a dreadful experience and it soured me on similar systems forever.

For all that is holy, if anyone (including WotC) is looking to build a system like VP/WP into any sort of D&D ruleset, houserules or otherwise, build the game around VP/WP from the ground up. Don't ever assume you can drop something like this into a game as a simple substitution for HP without major, major problems.

 

[Umbran]

I guess I'll keep trying then, because I'm not going to just stop engaging with fellow D&D players. I really wish more people looked beyond WotC in this hobby, because they are far from the best content producers out there.

One of our Moderators Emeritus put it thusly:

"I double-dog dare you to tell us how awesome your favorite game is without comparing it to any other game."

Don't spend your time tearing down WotC - that does little to make other products look good, and more to make it look like you are mean-spirited, trolling, or have an axe to grind.

Start threads on the things you like, talk about them there, and leave WotC out of it.