WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[MonsterEnvy]

The only thing I seriously think WotC needs to do differently is make honest to goodness sourcebooks.

last I checked we got a bunch of Sourcebooks.

 

[Maxperson]

@Remathilis @Whizbang Dustyboots @Azzy
I'm not going to respond to each of your posts, instead I'm going to show you how I would have done it if I were at WotC and I have posted this elsewhere so you may have already read it.

The way I see it with 5e, since they want to go the route of the original world being shattered and aspects appeared of the dragon goddess within the multiverse, is that...

There indeed was 1 Chromatic Dragon Goddess (name perhaps lost in time). Her universe shattered and aspects of her splintered into the multiverse. The Forgotten Realm's aspect took on the name Tiamat. The DL aspect took on the name Takhisis. They evolved within their respective universes. Although their heritage is the same, they are indeed different beings. They both have some common traits but they are for all intents and purposes different creatures.

Think Michael Keaton from Multiplicity. The original Michael Keaton is destroyed, only the copies now remain but they are indeed different beings. WotC definitely dropped the ball on this IMO. WotC going Tiamat = Takhisis is about as creative (and respectful) as David Benioff's and D.B. Weiss's storyline for Dorne, which is to say not at all.

EDIT: Like it or not many if not most of the DL fans came to the setting via the novels. When I'm talking about creators of the setting - for me it would be the authors. I read way more novels than I did DL gaming product. We can agree to disagree if it was lazy or whatever. But every edition adds new lore or amends old lore. They could have fixed the 2e Tiamat = Takhisis. They decided not to and I'm calling that lazy.

As has been pointed out, Takhisis being Tiamat has been in D&D since 1e(prior to Planescape and Spelljammer). WotC isn't angering anyone who wasn't already angry or ignorant of how far back it goes.

 

[AnotherGuy]

As has been pointed out, Takhisis being Tiamat has been in D&D since 1e(prior to Planescape and Spelljammer). WotC isn't angering anyone who wasn't already angry or ignorant of how far back it goes.

That wasn't my point.

 

[Maxperson]

That wasn't my point.

I know. My point is that the cat you're are trying to get back into the bag was let out 40ish years ago. It's too late. Better for WotC to embrace the Krynn lore established by TSR when the setting was released than to contradict it.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I know. My point is that the cat you're are trying to get back into the bag was let out 40ish years ago. It's too late. Better for WotC to embrace the Krynn lore established by TSR when the setting was released than to contradict it.

It is just frustrating because they had a brilliant opportunity with this First World lore they introduced which they do not even attempt to use. It wouldn't have been so much a contradiction but rather a reinterpretation thus embracing old and the new.

As a lore-lover and like many fans I try when its pertinent to me for our table to incorporate/make sense as much of the conflicting lore between editions. I know I'm crazy that way, but I like it.

 

[Scribe]

Undead people isn’t a race.

Says who?

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

It is just frustrating because they had a brilliant opportunity to with this First World lore they introduced which they do not even attempt to use. It wouldn't have been so much a contradiction but rather a reinterpretation thus embracing old and the new.

As a lore-lover and like many fans I try when its pertinent to me for our table to incorporate/make sense as much of the conflicting lore between editions. I know I'm crazy that way, but I like it.

Was about to make a post about how that doesn't really fit with 5e Great Wyrms essentially being the fusion of all of that dragon's disparate fragments back into a singular entity, but then it reminded me once again that, per Fizban's, 5e dragons are essentially FFXIV Ascians, and if

Spoiler: Shadowbringers/Endwalker Spoilers

Hydaelyn and Zodiark

can remain fragmented while effectively functioning as "gods", I guess it could work for Bahamut/Paladine and Tiamat/Takhisis as well...

Maybe something they could go into if/when a full 5e Dragonlance campaign setting is in the works.

 

[Remathilis]

I strongly disagree. Cosmology is a setting-level decision, not a game-level decision. D&D has always been a game that encompasses a multitude of settings, and arguing that cosmology is an inherent part of the game and not of any given setting is disingenuous.

Eberron has its own "orrery" cosmology. If you're making a setting that centers a Norse-like culture, it makes sense to have a cosmology based on the Nine Worlds and the World Tree. Primeval Thule doesn't have other planes – summoned creatures and the like come from other planets instead. 4e/Nenthir Vale had its own take on cosmology with a far more chaotic bent, with various domains spread out across the Astral Sea without any particular order to them.

There's also the issue that the Great Wheel cosmology is bad, and the less use it gets the better. Sigil is cool, but the rest of it is just box-checking (except for the part that's ripped off from Dante's self-insert fanfic).

First, I want to distinguish between a setting that is a D&D setting and one that uses the D&D rules. A D&D setting is a setting designed by the owners of D&D (TSR or WotC) for the D&D game. That excludes third party settings (Primeval Thule), guest settings (Exandria, Kalamar) and settings converted to D&D from other media (Middle Earth, Rokugan, Magic the Gathering). Yes, that is a very small list by intention. This is not to say these settings are lesser (some are quite good). Just that the D&D settings designed for D&D should have a common set of assumptions:

* They aim to support the vast majority of the D&D core rules of the edition it's currently being produced for. That means setting assumptions will change when the rules update. (Why are there sorcerers on Krynn? Because they are in the 5e PHB). O

* They support the general assumptions of the game, except when used to differentiate it. For example, Dark Sun uses an antagonistic view of magic as a key selling point to the setting and reinforces the themes. Making spellcasting harder is not a key component of Spelljammer, so the choice to remove complications arising from jamming was a good one; it didn't add as much value as it did add headache.

* The are mechanically compatible. A monster, spell, or subclass from one setting shouldn't be more powerful because it's designed for a specific setting. A DM, if willing, should be able to mix and match options and not worry about various power levels being incompatible.

* It should connect to the wider Multiverse. The D&D game has some unique IP that only D&D gets to use, it should use it. Named wizard spells, unique artifacts, mind flayers and beholders, etc. A setting should still feel like D&D, just with a particular set of wallpaper on it.

This is what should make a D&D setting unique from a setting like Golarion or Tal'dorei. It should embrace the fact it's not some 3pp setting tiptoeing around IP, it should embrace that lineage. And yes that means some compromises (such as Eberron's cosmology being a cosmology within a bubble in the wider Great Wheel, or the First World echoes explaining Tiamat and Tahkisis). Make the settings link. Let kender wander through portals to Faerun, dhampirs lurk on Krynn, and Spelljammer vessels call port in Eberronspace. Let the Mists pull people from every setting and Planescape factions swell the ranks with the clueless from every world. It's the one thing that separates them from any setting you or I can put on RPGNow. Let them use it.

 

[Scribe]

Let kender wander through portals to Faerun, dhampirs lurk on Krynn, and Spelljammer vessels call port in Eberronspace. Let the Mists pull people from every setting and Planescape factions swell the ranks with the clueless from every world. It's the one thing that separates them from any setting you or I can put on RPGNow. Let them use it.

Is this something fans of those settings would actually want?

(Spoiler: I dont.)

 

[Justice and Rule]

Says who?