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The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
If I could find an intuitive VTT I might consider it, but having tried several VTTs I have yet to find one I find intuitive.

And I work on computers for a living and host an MMORPG I coded from scratch (my interface isn’t intuitive either - intuitive interfaces are HARD).
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Going rate seems closer to $40 per person, per session. A DM who builds a reputation might be able to charge more.

Four players per session . . . four hour session . . . about $40 per hour of live gaming, not including prep time. Even better if you are running games for larger groups.

You're not going to get rich, but I can see how some folks who really enjoy this kind of work and are good at it, can make a decent living in areas with reasonable cost-of-living.

Seems like for a lot of DM's this makes for a fun and decently paying side gig. And in this economy, side gigs are becoming more and more of a necessity, sadly.

It's basically pocket money unless you can charge towards the higher end.

Your not going to be able to DM 40 hours a week and 30 hours os probably pushing it with burnout and voice.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
If I could find an intuitive VTT I might consider it, but having tried several VTTs I have yet to find one I find intuitive.

And I work on computers for a living and host an MMORPG I coded from scratch (my interface isn’t intuitive either - intuitive interfaces are HARD).
Out of curiosity which ones have you tried?

I find the maps tools on D&DBeyond to be as intuitive as it gets. It does need a subscription and it does not do any automation.
 

Reynard

Legend
A buddy and I were talking and it occurred to us that maybe running games on something like this is a good way to scratch that GM ADD itc without having to constantly disrupt your regular group.

How does one learn more about running games on Start Playing?
 


Juxtapozbliss

Explorer
I did do it for a few months. But after that I had very bad luck at getting another game off the ground. Couple of one shots but that was it. There are a LOT of games available at any given time.

Something like this though could be a huge boost to people wanting to give it a shot.

I'm by no means a deeply experienced DM on SPG, but I did have a similar experience. I have run so far in total 23 paid game session through SPG. I started running them early summer of 2023. But I actually signed up in March! Initially I was opening up multiple campaigns on Mondays, Tuesdays, Weds, Thursday and Sundays. I was unemployed for part of last year so it was a great way to try to squeeze out a little money to make things a bit easier. Without having reviews on the site and no "run games" yet, it took several months before i even had one sign up. Then I had one sign up, then another, then quickly hit 4 then 5 people in one campaign. Then a second campaign took off, and I was running two at the same time. I started collecting positive reviews on the site. (I now have 14 great reviews.)

What I found was that it was really hard to keep a campaign going indefinitely. After like 4 or 5 weeks of a full team...someone would have a schedule or life change, and they'd have to drop out. Sometimes a new person would sign up to replace them, but not very quickly...a lot of people don't want to join a game that has already run 8 sessions into the campaign--they like to start at the beginning. And once one person dropped, it seemed to become a cascade every time. Both those campaigns fell apart just as a third one was taking off. My third campaign lasted about 8 sessions and then it dropped again like the others to only 2 players so I put it on hold but kept it listed on the site. My players were fine with that--they wanted to keep playing with me but not with only 2 players. Then I got a job in September so I de-listed my weekday games, but I still kept my Sunday campaign floating on the site. Then out of the blue, a new person joined. And then another. And then another. All of a sudden I had 5 players and started up again a couple months ago.

For the average DM, even a good one, it's hard to get the momentum going to keep up a campaign. Some of the top DMs have a pretty big Discord following, and they even have waiting lists. But those folks are few and far between. That said, I think if you stick with it and don't get discouraged, and run a good game...as you build up a history there and good reviews, it becomes a bit easier to get players to sign up.
 

Juxtapozbliss

Explorer
If I could find an intuitive VTT I might consider it, but having tried several VTTs I have yet to find one I find intuitive.

And I work on computers for a living and host an MMORPG I coded from scratch (my interface isn’t intuitive either - intuitive interfaces are HARD).

I use Foundry, but I know The Lazy DM recommends Owlbear Rodeo for something simple and intuitive.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I'll give a paying player's perspective.

I've been using Start Playing for a few years. I've used the Roll20 find-a-game site even longer, for both free and paid games. My work and travel schedule has made it impossible to commit to an in-person game. Even for online games, I can't commit to being a player in an ongoing campaign. Paid games have been the best way for me to find one-shots, at a time that works for me, with GMs and players I enjoy playing with. And I can usually find a good game on very short notice, especially at Start Playing.

Free games are more difficult, because most DMs running games for free on find-a-game services are looking for players who can commit to a campaign on a regular schedule. As for free one-shot, pick-up games, they are hit or miss. Some are GMs who are into a less-popular system and are just using it as a way to recruit players and it feels more like a performance interview than just enjoying a one-shot game. I've had more awkward personalities (both DMs and players) with random free one shots and both DMs and players are more flaky with free one shots, leading to games being cancelled at the last minute, not starting on time, etc.

My best experiences with one shots are those that are run by people who are (for lack of a better word) "evangelists" for lesser known systems. Some game companies (DCC comes to mind) have their staff regularly run free one-shots to introduce people to their systems and these sessions tend to be a lot of fun.

But if I want to play a one shot of a more popular system, Start Playing is a great resource. If I find myself in a hotel on a friday night with nothing to do, I can almost always find a one-shot that looks interesting. Start Playing makes it easy to filter by date and time, game system, DM play style (self-reported), number of games the DM has run, and player reviews for the DM. I have, surprisingly, never had a bad experience and have never regretting spending the USD 20-50 for a 4-6 hour game.

It is also a good way to familiarize myself with systems that I am thinking of running. Some professional GMs, however, get a little touchy about this, especially if I start asking about how they've configured certain aspects of their VTT setup.



Before 2019, before my job change, when I was running games in person and didn't have a crazy travel schedule, I still didn't have time to both run my campaign for my friends and play regularly in another campaign. Other than some games with old friends over the Christmas break, the only time I played was at a convention I went to each year. The amount I spent at the convention was less than I would have spent if I payed a GM for a year's worth of weekly 4-hour sessions. I mean, I guess there are other things conventions offer, but nothing I'm interested in. I go there to play. That and to browse merchant stalls (which inevitably leads to spending more money, because I'm a terrible impulse buyer at game conventions).

Instead of going to a convention, I can spread out my play time and costs, to play one-shots in a variety of systems over the year. I mean, if one can't afford it, they can't afford it. For me it is paying and playing through Start Playing rather than going to a convention. Also, as I'm not GMing my own campaign in person any more, I've stopped buying terrain, minis, and other physical game aids years ago. Even with regular use of Start Playing, I'm paying less on the hobby than I did before 2020 and it is much more convenient.
Hey, I think I'm almost at this from the opposite end. I'd love to play, but am happy Dming. I would love to have a reliable schedule for an extended campaign -or even do the paid gig-. However, the best I can do time-wise is maybe one shots on short notice and I'm not sure if anybody can be up for these conditions.

Edit: to clarify, I think I'd be up for running the occasional one-shot, but the best I can do is on short notice and I have failed in the past to recruit people on time for such a thing.
 

Hussar

Legend
For the average DM, even a good one, it's hard to get the momentum going to keep up a campaign. Some of the top DMs have a pretty big Discord following, and they even have waiting lists. But those folks are few and far between. That said, I think if you stick with it and don't get discouraged, and run a good game...as you build up a history there and good reviews, it becomes a bit easier to get players to sign up.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly my experience. Funny thing is, I got a 5 player game off the ground in like two weeks after signing up. It was an instant thing. Fantastic. But, I think that it made my expectations very unrealistic when it then fell apart after about 8 sessions. I figured, "Hey, I got this first game up and going right away, so, it must be easy right?" Then it was weeks and weeks of nothing.

Now another job has kinda eaten up my free time, which means that I haven't tried to get anything going again in quite a while. But, that aside, I do highly recommend the service. Payment was easy peasy, scheduling and whatnot was super easy. From a sort of side-gig standpoint, it's not a bad way to support your hobby.

But, like you say, once the game gets off the ground, it seems that it's nearly impossible to add in new players after a few sessions.
 

The Sigil

Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
I use Foundry, but I know The Lazy DM recommends Owlbear Rodeo for something simple and intuitive.
I've used Fantasy Grounds, Foundry, and Owlbear Rodeo; of the three I found Owlbear Rodeo to be the most intuitive, but it's not really what I'm looking for.

Specifically, I'm not looking for something that rolls all the dice for me and knows all the rules. What I really need is a VTT where I can import a map graphic, specify the scale, trace the "walls" (bonus points if the software can figure this out for me), then drop PC tokens on the map with light sources, add other light sources as I desire, and let the VTT calculate Fog of War based on the light sources and walls/doors so I don't have to manually track what the PCs can see, un-fog things myself, etc.

Maybe also help me track PC and monster AC and HP (but don't show the players). Perhaps also spell effect templates (I don't need animations per se). But really, that's about it... something that is really good at Fog of War and super-easy to use for that.
 

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