Unearthed Arcana WOTC still can't get the backgrounds right in the new FR book.

[Necropolitan]

The claim was made that 0% will be willing to not have an unoptimized Dragon Cultist because of the stat discrepancy. This is an insistence that NO story can be unoptimized.

When in fact, almost every story is unoptimized, because stories are more powerful when they connect to the nature of humanity. That nature means we are good at some things, bad at others, and frequently humans enjoy doing things that they aren't particularly good at -- see every amatuer adult sports league, wine-and-painting nights, etc.

That's not how it works.

It doesn't matter how good the story is if the mechanics make it not fun to play.

Just look at 3.5, mechanics won out over story the overwhelming majority of the time. Truespeakers had great stories (they know the True language of existence!) but because the mechanics made them unplayable people didn't play them.

 

[bedir than]

Just look at 3.5, mechanics won out over story the overwhelming majority of the time. Truespeakers had great stories (they know the True language of existence!) but because the mechanics made them unplayable people didn't play them.

I don't know how 3.5 is relevant.

It's not based on Bounded Accuracy. 5e is. There's no great miss from having a single point of bonus in a place that isn't perfect

 

[MGibster]

Why is the assumption that 100% optimize for stats rather than optimize for story?

Because it's D&D. It's the same reason I saw an awful lot of Sailor backgrounds in D&D 2014. It wasn't so much about optimizing for story, it was about having access to Perception. I imagine this is a problem that will continue to plague backgrounds so long as you attach skills or attributes to them. I suspect in the future they'll essentially get rid of backgrounds and just tell players to assign bonuses to their stats as they see fit.

 

[Necropolitan]

I don't know how 3.5 is relevant.

It's not based on Bounded Accuracy. 5e is. There's no great miss from having a single point of bonus in a place that isn't perfect

3.5 was just an easy example.

And as has been pointed out 5E 2024 fixing specific ability scores and feats to specific Background meant players just took whichever Background gave them the best boosts.

The solution should have been freely-assigned ability score bonuses and feats with Backgrounds giving gear and a special story benefit.

 

[ECMO3]

If it matters that much, then change it for your game. And don't worry... we'll all keep quiet about it.

It is not this one thing that matters so much, it is that the background system is so screwed up.

The best Monks are Sailors and the best Barbarians are Farmers and if you want to play something more traditional like an Acolyte or Sage for Monk or Guide or Hermit for Barbarian you are penalized mechanically for taking that Background. Similarly Wayfarer is makes a better Rogue than Criminal does!

I know I can houserule it and fix it. We do that in every 2024 game I play both as a player and DM, either by allowing custom backgrounds (I am playing a seaman not a sailor) or by divorcing the feat and bonuses from the background so you can choose something that actually makes sense for the Character's backstory and includes the mechanics to go with it.

My point is that apparently WOTC can't figure out how to fix it.

 

[ECMO3]

Because it's D&D. It's the same reason I saw an awful lot of Sailor backgrounds in D&D 2014. It wasn't so much about optimizing for story, it was about having access to Perception. I imagine this is a problem that will continue to plague backgrounds so long as you attach skills or attributes to them. I suspect in the future they'll essentially get rid of backgrounds and just tell players to assign bonuses to their stats as they see fit.

The skills are not nearly as big a deal as the feats and ability bonuses. The ability bonuses in particular that make no logical sense at all since they are bonuses, not minimums or scores.

 

[ECMO3]

The claim was made that 0% will be willing to not have an unoptimized Dragon Cultist because of the stat discrepancy. This is an insistence that NO story can be unoptimized.

The claim was "pretty much" which isn't 0%.

And yes most are just not going to play that when they can play a custom background, get a background that better fits their backstory and has mechanics that work better with the feat.

I am sure we will see a "Dragon Cult Follower" (custom background) quite often, or a Human with "Wayfarer" background that takes Dragon Cult Initiate as their Bonus Origin feat. We just won't see a "Dragon Cultist" .... probably ever.

Which is the whole point. WOTC wasted space putting together this background, and many in the PHB that won't be used.

When in fact, almost every story is unoptimized, because stories are more powerful when they connect to the nature of humanity. That nature means we are good at some things, bad at others, and frequently humans enjoy doing things that they aren't particularly good at

Exactly, so why are ability score increases and feats attached to specific backgrounds?

 

[ECMO3]

It's not based on Bounded Accuracy. 5e is. There's no great miss from having a single point of bonus in a place that isn't perfect

It is not 1 point, it is 2-3 points.

 

[mellored]

Are you sure it's not intended?

At-will frightened + short rest inspiration might be slightly too strong that they felt like they needed to nerf the stats slightly.

Side note. Allies can willingly fail saves. So just scare them out of combat for easy heroic inspiration.

 

[ECMO3]

Are you sure it's not intended?

At-will frightened + short rest inspiration might be slightly too strong that they felt like they needed to nerf the stats slightly.

Side note. Allies can willingly fail saves. So just scare them out of combat for easy heroic inspiration.

At will frightened as an action by itself is not particularly strong, even with the Heroic Inspiration, because it only lasts one round and can only be used once on a creature. I would say this is an OK Origin feat, but not nearly as good as the best. You are trading your action give an enemy disadvantage if he attacks and limit his movement for one round. That can be situationally effective, but it is not generally effective.

Now the follow on feat at 4th level that lets you use it as a bonus action every time you do damage on your turn is very powerful. The value in the 1st level feat is being able to take the 4th level feat since it is a prereq.