Unearthed Arcana WOTC still can't get the backgrounds right in the new FR book.

[Voadam]

Page 6

"Your DM might set the campaign on one of these worlds or on one that he or she created. Because there is so much diversity among the worlds of D&D, you should check with your DM about any house rules that will affect your play of the game. Ultimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if the setting is a published world."

That is check with the DM for house rules in general, not that backgrounds were DM granted as a default without house rules. This applies equally to whether you can play a rogue or a dwarf or a Neutral Good alignment or any other element of a character.

The shift of custom backgrounds to the DMG and the framing being a DM only grant is a change, one that I think is worse for the game. It is kind of weird, they took away some of the explicit 14 PH DM default choices for their games (feats and multiclassing as options a DM may or might not allow) but made custom backgrounds the thing to be DM campaign dependent.

I am not sure why you think the specific background combos of narrative, skills, attributes, and starting feat "have a greater potential to fail to meet the DM's setting than feats, races, etc." You have been arguing vociferously at length that the ASI is not significant and will not be noticed except in the most corner of cases, for instance.

 

[Maxperson]

That is check with the DM for house rules in general, not that backgrounds were DM granted as a default without house rules. This applies equally to whether you can play a rogue or a dwarf or a Neutral Good alignment or any other element of a character.

The shift of custom backgrounds to the DMG and the framing being a DM only grant is a change, one that I think is worse for the game. It is kind of weird, they took away some of the explicit 14 PH DM default choices for their games (feats and multiclassing as options a DM may or might not allow) but made custom backgrounds the thing to be DM campaign dependent.

I am not sure why you think the specific background combos of narrative, skills, attributes, and starting feat "have a greater potential to fail to meet the DM's setting than feats, races, etc." You have been arguing vociferously at length that the ASI is not significant and will not be noticed except in the most corner of cases, for instance.

That is explicitly a check on the entire campaign and setting.

"Ultimately, the Dungeon Master is the authority on the campaign and its setting, even if the setting is a published world."

And in any case, the DMG also says the DM is not beholden to the rules in the PHB.

Edit: They have a greater chance to fail to meet the DM's setting, because in my experience, DMs usually don't curate races and feats, but settings do have a theme. Backgrounds are more likely to fail that theme than races, feats, etc.

 

[FrogReaver]

Ok here you go, No feats at all.

1. Four 2nd level Fighters vs 2 Ogres (this is your example) with 15 Strength and 15 Constitution, 2 with Longswords (AC19), 2 with Greataxes (AC17) in close melee and random initiative order:

Chance of TPK: 2%
Chance of 3 downed fighters: 5%
Chance of 2 downed fighters: 18%
Chance of 1 downed fighters: 55%
Chance of no downed fighters: 22%

Expected outcome: 1 Fighter downed

2. Four 2nd level fighters with 16 Strength and 16 Constitution with the same weapons and same conditions:

Chance of TPK: less than 1% (0.3%)
Chance of 3 downed fighters: 1%
Chance of 2 downed fighters: 7%
Chance of 1 downed fighters: 35%
Chance of no downed fighters: 57%

Expected outcome: no fighters downed

So there you go. That is the scenario you asked for, without any feats, concentrated attacks and includes Sap, Cleave, Action Surge and Second Windx2. I am sure you will still find a reason to complain about it though.

@Maxperson
Bottom of this post lists concentrated attacks.

 

[Maxperson]

@Maxperson
Bottom of this post lists concentrated attacks.

I still fail to see how the ogres only get in 1 single hit half the time, but then I don't play 5.5e, so maybe all that mastery mumbo jumbo that I didn't like in the playtest does it.

Edit: And I see cleave, so he put the ogres next to each other to get that advantage.

 

[Voadam]

Edit: They have a greater chance to fail to meet the DM's setting, because in my experience, DMs usually don't curate races and feats, but settings do have a theme. Backgrounds are more likely to fail that theme than races, feats, etc.

How so?

The narrative of the backgrounds? The ones in the 14 PH were fairly generic and archetypal and broad and easily applied to a bunch of concepts that would fit most worlds.

The associated feats? In 24 they do have a lot of spellcasting ones from things that I might not expect narratively. Acolyte went from a lay clergy in 14 to a 24 spellcasting magic initiate. Guide is also a spellcasting magic initiate.

 

[FrogReaver]

I still fail to see how the ogres only get in 1 single hit half the time, but then I don't play 5.5e, so maybe all that mastery mumbo jumbo that I didn't like in the playtest does it.

Edit: And I see cleave, so he put the ogres next to each other to get that advantage.

More important is sap mastery, disadvantage on hit and if players spread sap attacks across the ogres or concentrate them on 1.

 

[Maxperson]

More important is sap mastery, disadvantage on hit and if players spread sap attacks across the ogres or concentrate them on 1.

Did I mention that I really dislike masteries? And what the hell? Longswords give you sap? When you sap someone, it's with a blunt instrument, not a sharp one.

 

[FrogReaver]

Did I mention that I really dislike masteries? And what the hell? Longswords give you sap? When you sap someone, it's with a blunt instrument, not a sharp one.

They were a much needed martial vs caster balancing feature IMO.

 

[Voadam]

Did I mention that I really dislike masteries? And what the hell? Longswords give you sap? When you sap someone, it's with a blunt instrument, not a sharp one.

I would say hitting over the head with the pommel, but it is when you do a normal strike that inflicts slashing damage.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Another thing that annoys me about 24 backgrounds is how much they are framed as DM tools for world building and not PC tools for character building. Even when it talks about meeting a player's concept of their character it is framed as an optional DM thing to do.

From the 24 SRD in the DM section:

Creating a Background
A character’s background represents what the character did prior to becoming an adventurer. Creating a unique background or customizing an existing one can reflect the particular theme of your campaign or elements of your world. You can also create a background to help a player craft the story they have in mind for their character.

In 14 the PH backgrounds were explicitly framed as samples and that the players could modify things to match their character concepts.

14 PH page 125:

"The sample backgrounds in this chapter provide both concrete benefits (features, proficiencies, and languages) and roleplaying suggestions."

"CUSTOMIZING A BACKGROUND
You might want to tweak some of the features of a background so it better fits your character or the campaign setting. To customize a background, you can replace one feature with any other one, choose any two skills, and choose a total of two tool proficiencies or languages from the sample backgrounds."

I much prefer the 14 model of having robust selection of samples ready to go, but also providing a default of crafting your own or modifying them as a PC to meet your character concept.

In my 5e 14 cinematic gothic horror Funeral of Renowned Archaeologist Professor Jones campaign I had the PCs come up with ideas for why they were asked to be pallbearers at the funeral and their connections to the professor or his daughter. The PCs came up with fantastic backgrounds for their characters.

The professor's secretary at the university.

The professor's butler at his estate.

The professor's grave robber assistant on his expeditions.

Mentee junior professor of archaeology (modelled on Daniel Jackson in Stargate complete with fringe theory that ancient elven fantasy Egyptian Pharaohs were actually aliens).

Rival archaeologist (modeled on Belloq from Indiana Jones)

Sometimes partner archaelogist and former on again off again girlfriend (modeled on Elsa from Last Crusade)

It was fantastic and flavorful and no work on my part as DM besides providing them the narrative campaign premise.

So as both a player and a DM I love the change to backgrounds, it allows the dm to give final arbitration on how the society in their game looks. I have a concept of what I want I go with a proposal to the DM and they look at it and either say, OK, or tweak it and hand it back saying that that is how they Invision that job, that culture ect working in their world.