WotC's forum "Iconics" discussion thread (or "goobye, Lidda")
- Thread starter Glyfair
- Start date
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
I said it on that thread and I'll say it here:
If they create new, Fourth Edition-specific iconics - and they should - then there's only one thing I want from them: ethnic diversity.
First of all, not all the humans should look like they have European ancestry. D&D doesn't take place in a fantastic version of medieval Europe, it takes place in innumerable unique worlds with history and geography of their own. There is no good reason why all the human characters we see in D&D illustrations should look like they come from England, Germany, or Greece. Nor should non-European humans necessarily be exoticised by putting them in clothes reminiscent of the real-world ethnic group - you can have a human wizard who looks "Japanese" wearing the same outfit as any other human wizard, it doesn't have to be a kimono.
Second, there should be more than one ethnic group represented among the non-human races as well. The different kinds of dwarves out there don't have to match up to human ethnic groups: we don't need European dwarves, African dwarves, Asian dwarves, et cetera. However, neither should every dwarf look like a short, stocky European - I'd like to see some diversity.
What's wrong with an elf who has deep brown skin like someone from India? Hell, get away from human genetic patterns, give the brown-skinned elf reddish-blonde hair.
For that matter, Krusk is already a good example of how you can have a non-human PC who doesn't look European. Ember is pretty much the only other one of the Third Edition iconics who represents a non-European ethnic group - and it's a little disappointing that the "exotic" African-looking woman was used for the "exotic" monk class.
Devis and Gimble were both white. Jozan and Eberk were white. Vadania was white. Regdar and Tordek were white. Alhandra was white. Soveliss was white. Lidda was white. Hennet was white. Mialee was white (though if you squint a little, she could also just fit into a Native or Latin American ethnic pattern).
Now, it's a shame I feel that I should mention this, but I am myself of entirely British heritage going back as far as my family can tell me. I'm a pretty obviously white guy. My opinions on this matter are not coloured by the fact that I, myself, belong to an ethnic group other than the one which dominates D&D illustrations.
They're coloured by the fact that I'm aware of the extent to which white people dominate fantasy illustration in general and D&D illustration in particular, and I'd like to see some changes made.
If they create new, Fourth Edition-specific iconics - and they should - then there's only one thing I want from them: ethnic diversity.
First of all, not all the humans should look like they have European ancestry. D&D doesn't take place in a fantastic version of medieval Europe, it takes place in innumerable unique worlds with history and geography of their own. There is no good reason why all the human characters we see in D&D illustrations should look like they come from England, Germany, or Greece. Nor should non-European humans necessarily be exoticised by putting them in clothes reminiscent of the real-world ethnic group - you can have a human wizard who looks "Japanese" wearing the same outfit as any other human wizard, it doesn't have to be a kimono.
Second, there should be more than one ethnic group represented among the non-human races as well. The different kinds of dwarves out there don't have to match up to human ethnic groups: we don't need European dwarves, African dwarves, Asian dwarves, et cetera. However, neither should every dwarf look like a short, stocky European - I'd like to see some diversity.
What's wrong with an elf who has deep brown skin like someone from India? Hell, get away from human genetic patterns, give the brown-skinned elf reddish-blonde hair.
For that matter, Krusk is already a good example of how you can have a non-human PC who doesn't look European. Ember is pretty much the only other one of the Third Edition iconics who represents a non-European ethnic group - and it's a little disappointing that the "exotic" African-looking woman was used for the "exotic" monk class.
Devis and Gimble were both white. Jozan and Eberk were white. Vadania was white. Regdar and Tordek were white. Alhandra was white. Soveliss was white. Lidda was white. Hennet was white. Mialee was white (though if you squint a little, she could also just fit into a Native or Latin American ethnic pattern).
Now, it's a shame I feel that I should mention this, but I am myself of entirely British heritage going back as far as my family can tell me. I'm a pretty obviously white guy. My opinions on this matter are not coloured by the fact that I, myself, belong to an ethnic group other than the one which dominates D&D illustrations.
They're coloured by the fact that I'm aware of the extent to which white people dominate fantasy illustration in general and D&D illustration in particular, and I'd like to see some changes made.
mhacdebhandia said:
This part I'm not on board with. It's kind of like the thread about whether a fantasy world should have horses. I think the baseline of the world should be something people can relate to, because it's the baseline. The fantastical things should be saved for those things which are supposed to be fantastical in the world.
It's great to have a racially diverse world. Like in Earth history, there will be some places where most people will look fairly similar, and other places that are melting pots. Though I don't like the idea of "iconic characters" at all (I get sick of seeing the same annoying characters in every picture), whether the art is of iconics or not it would be great to have racial and ethnic diversity.
But if we get into "These guys have ochre skin, violet eyes, frightwig blue or seafoam hair and green fingernails" then we're back to "Instead of horses people ride lavender 12-legged winged tree sloths". Likewise for picking a techno/cultural milieu that people can relate to. I'm not saying that playing in an entirely alien world is wrong, it just isn't standard fantasy. I'd prefer the baseline be standard fantasy and then I can modify it to taste (like making a post-apocalyptic Thundarr type setting, or whatever).
Glyfair
Explorer
Nifft said:
I'd really like to start a poll to see which iconic characters people would bring forward if some where coming forward. Clearly Lidda would win, but I'm curious is any are close.
Unfortunately, with the boards in the state they are in, the poll would disappear quickly.
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