OGL WotC's growing pattern of broken promises

[Staffan]

Especially if you keep in mind that most executives at that level receive their compensation in mostly stock. This then in turn incentivizes them to pump up that stock in the short term (as most people at this level are only at a company at that position for a few years). It's why you see businesses make decisions that are only good in the short term and actually harmful in the medium and long term all the time. The only way to fix it is to pay them a salary without stock compensation and obligate them to a fiduciary duty to manage the long-term health of the company.

That, or you know, we eat 'em.

The DM's Guild won't let us.

 

[Dausuul]

Whether or not Wizards should get rid of the reserve list, it remains a promise that they made and have now... not precisely broken, but danced along the edge of breaking, in a blatant short-term cash grab. Even if you think the reserve list ought to go, I doubt you'd consider gold-bordered boosters at $250 apiece to be a good way of doing it. That's not addressing the problems the reserve list causes -- it's addressing the problem of "How can we, Wizards, snag some of the cash locked up in those cards?"

And from what I can see, the result was a reputation-damaging failure. I think their moves around D&D are likely to end the same way.

So, yeah, I agree with the overall thesis of the thread. Wizards has always had a healthy regard for its own profits, but they used to keep an eye on the long term, which meant nurturing an ecosystem of partners and customers who would keep growing their bottom line, year after year. Now they have begun turning on that ecosystem and trying to grab all the money in sight. It won't end well for either game.

I'm actually more worried about Magic than D&D. D&D has been through a lot, and the TTRPG community is strong and has the means to fight back against WotC's predation (thanks in part to the wisdom of WotC's past leadership). They can do a lot of damage, but I don't think anything Wizards does can truly kill D&D. But they absolutely can kill Magic.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I don't think anything Wizards does can truly kill D&D. But they absolutely can kill Magic.

Worst case scenario we go back to playing Hyborian Gates.

 

[Remathilis]

Whether or not Wizards should get rid of the reserve list, it remains a promise that they made and have now... not precisely broken, but danced along the edge of breaking, in a blatant short-term cash grab. Even if you think the reserve list ought to go, I doubt you'd consider gold-bordered boosters at $250 apiece to be a good way of doing it. That's not addressing the problems the reserve list causes -- it's addressing the problem of "How can we, Wizards, snag some of the cash locked up in those reserve list cards?"

Oh I agree on that. The anniversary was a terrible idea. I just wish WotC would go after the Reserve List with the same gusto they went after 1.0a.

 

[The Stray]

If there was ever a promise I wanted WotC to break, it's the naughty word reserve list. Playing Magic shouldn't require a mortgage. The anniversary edition was what happens when you tiptoe around fan reactions rather than say "this is something that has outlived it's usefulness and it's now a detriment to the game."

The anniversary edition should have been a gold-backed draft set with chase black borders in it for standard price. But WotC doesn't want to make Rudy angry, so they picked the worst of all worlds.

Death to the reserve list. Cards are to be played, not investment chips.

Oh, you get argument from me on that, but some people DO care. A lot. And the fact that they ONLY produced it to harpoon whales is rage-inducing for their entire base. I'm just pointing out a pattern of behavior here.

 

[The Stray]

That's a completely different thing in that Reserved List is a rule the overwhelming majority of their audience doesn't want them to honour. This wasn't the way to do it but frankly, that's one promise they should tear up.

Unfortunately there seems to be some (actual or perceived) legal issue forcing them to keep that in play despite the wishes of most of their customers and some within the company itself. Notably, this was the case long before the current batch of ex-Microsoft people and such were in charge - it's not a new issue by any means. MaRo, for example, has made it clear the Reserved List isn't going anywhere, all but said outright that's against his wishes, and the most information-rich response he's given to the question of why was something like "I can't tell you, and I can't tell you why I can't tell you". Tell me there's lawyers involved, without telling me there's lawyers involved...

It's not, though. Just because the player base WANTED that change, by and large, doesn't mean it doesn't fit the pattern. Especially since that breakage was limited and predatory, instead of what people ACTUALLY wanted it to be (printing actual, playable versions of at least the dual lands in a set that's reasonably priced). And the fact that there was the whole "tell me you got lawyers up in your junk without telling me" aspect just reinforces this pattern.

 

[The Stray]

Hasbro's stock is way overvalued despite dropping in the last year and an actual correction to what it's value should be would basically cause shareholders to replace everyone at the company. So they're scrambling to do whatever they can to keep people believing their valuation is correct and going up instead of way out of line for what they are and what they do.

Just speculation, but executives making bad decisions to keep their stock valuation inflated can often answer a whole lot of questions around "why is this publicly traded company making such stupid short term decisions?"

Sure, but is Hasbro's stock collapse a result of all this deal-breaking cash-grabby behavior? Or the cause of it? I want to get at the root of that, because this has been going on a few years now, since before Covid.

I have to wonder if it's fallout from the Toys-R-Us bankruptcy, and Hasbro losing that outlet for its products.

 

[eyeheartawk]

Sure, but is Hasbro's stock collapse a result of all this deal-breaking cash-grabby behavior? Or the cause of it? I want to get at the root of that, because this has been going on a few years now, since before Covid.

I have to wonder if it's fallout from the Toys-R-Us bankruptcy, and Hasbro losing that outlet for its products.

That assumes that they make things anymore /s

Seriously though, they aren't so much a company that makes and sells things anymore. That's all ancillary. They want to just be an IP holding company and that goes back a long ways. They tried to make a movie out of Battleship for crying out loud. I'm sure the Toys R Us thing didn't help but I don't think it mattered much to them since they were taking the company in a different way.

 

[Scribe]

Oh I agree on that. The anniversary was a terrible idea. I just wish WotC would go after the Reserve List with the same gusto they went after 1.0a.

I mean its kind of funny actually now that you mention it.

If the RL got even a fraction of the attention as 1.0 is, it would likely go down without anywhere near the fight.

They just got too cute with the 30th $1000 for 4 packs of cards 'idea' and it bit them in the ass.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Chris Cock became WotC President in 2016, and choose the next one to suceed him.

The FR novel lines died around that time because it was decided WotC was no longer in the novel and everything started going wrong around that time. Product quality increasingly suffered, ending in Spelljammer, with a few exceptions like Tasha's. Heavy story problems arose MtG side.

Evidence of growing arrogance and greed was mounting. Then the legal debuckles started in 2020, the that was just the underlying rot spreading to the legal decisions as the increasing profitiblity of MtG and D&D bred every increasing arrogance and greed until Chris Cock and WotC Cynthia Williams thought they could do no wrong.

Eventually they took a step too far and that was the OGL 1.0a, which they can't actually legally do.

If this keeps up either it wrecks Hasbro or Chris Cock and WotC President Cynthia Williams and D&D Vice President are gone.

They must be getting the worst legal advice or they are ignoring it.

 

[Scribe]

with a few exceptions like Tasha's.

Tasha's is trash. Your 2016 marker seems about right though.

 

[Plokman]

Fact of matter, they are owned by Hasbro. Not too much different from Mattel, they own a franchise that is multi generation and they appear to listen, but it is a lie. Thomas the Tank Engine could of survived a dumbed down CGI like BWBA, I will buy nothing but toy cars from them. (For reference see All Engines Go)

Yes Thomas broke my back on Mattel, Hasbro is still doing it, to be honest I collect toys and am starting up my own company through Patreon and YouTube so I will inevitably buy Transformers or Power Rangers. But I tend to do that through TPP like Super Seven.

I was stoked to see the Dice Transformers, but no Hasbro I am not paying for that and do forgive my use of the dictionary definition of the word here Slag! You wanna know who has bearings of Chromium Steel? Everyone who ignores you.

We have the power, simply put there are millions of us, a dozen of you. To paraphrase Kathleen Barr "I will have fun with your playdoh, the rest of you who cares"

 

[guachi]

There are no legacy tournaments. The cost is so prohibitive that no one can afford to play.

That said, I just replaced my printer cartridge and bought a land pack. Want to play my $4000 deck?

What's crazy is I started playing Magic 30 years ago and have tens of thousands of dollars in cards (very played cards) sitting in boxes somewhere. Moxen, multilands, a Black Lotus somewhere. I never bring them out to play because who would I play with?

 

[MoonSong]

What's crazy is I started playing Magic 30 years ago and have tens of thousands of dollars in cards (very played cards) sitting in boxes somewhere. Moxen, multilands, a Black Lotus somewhere. I never bring them out to play because who would I play with?

You could make a vintage cube and invite friends to play.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Another broken promise was actually never doing anything like Universes Beyond, only to do Universes Beyond later on.

 

[The Stray]

Another broken promise was actually never doing anything like Universes Beyond, only to do Universes Beyond later on.

Oooo, yeah. The Walking Dead SL was something I remember HATING.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Oooo, yeah. The Walking Dead SL was something I remember HATING.

A lot of the Vorthos community hated the UB stuff, but the D&D sets divided Vorthos opinion more, not as controversial, but some didn't like mixing their MtG Peanut Butter with their D&D chocolate, like Scribe.

 

[jeffh]

Another broken promise was actually never doing anything like Universes Beyond, only to do Universes Beyond later on.

Another case where a link would be nice. When did they promise that?

 

[Haplo781]

What's crazy is I started playing Magic 30 years ago and have tens of thousands of dollars in cards (very played cards) sitting in boxes somewhere. Moxen, multilands, a Black Lotus somewhere. I never bring them out to play because who would I play with?

You could sell those and buy a house.

 

[Remathilis]

You could sell those and buy a house.

Not in this market!