OGL WotC's growing pattern of broken promises


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It is like when I worked for the local shopping malls- Every quarter needs to be the best quarter.
that is a HUGE issue. If I make (made up and really low numbers) $5 profit today and $7 tomorrow and $9 the next day, then after that have 2 days of making $7.50 that is seen as "Two down days" even though I not only turned profit but made above my starting profit.

I can not tell you how many times I have had to explain to someone that spending tens of thousands of dollars to 'increase growth' wont break even for 2 years and by then you may have to AGAIN reinvest some sum to be able to keep it going. On the other hand having a steady income for that time will end up better.

Sometimes my graphs spreadsheets and words work... sometimes I watch as people throw away winners for losers trying to chase a 'bigger winner'
 



Haplo781

Legend
that is a HUGE issue. If I make (made up and really low numbers) $5 profit today and $7 tomorrow and $9 the next day, then after that have 2 days of making $7.50 that is seen as "Two down days" even though I not only turned profit but made above my starting profit.

I can not tell you how many times I have had to explain to someone that spending tens of thousands of dollars to 'increase growth' wont break even for 2 years and by then you may have to AGAIN reinvest some sum to be able to keep it going. On the other hand having a steady income for that time will end up better.

Sometimes my graphs spreadsheets and words work... sometimes I watch as people throw away winners for losers trying to chase a 'bigger winner'
Dow Jones delenda est.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Sure, I'd sleeve up my own?

Can I interest you however in the better format, Modern? ;)
Can I interest you in only playing WotC era D&D from now on?

I'm amazed people are outraged that WotC is a greedy company who wants to monetize D&D to the penny but completely cool with WotC refusing to reprint legacy cards from the first decade of Magic's history because some people invested a car's worth into cards and would be sad if their dual lands aren't worth a ps5 a piece.
 
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So it's apples to oranges then.
I don't think it is from a gameplay perspective, would the game not be meaningfully improved if you could buy all the decks for $300.00 instead of one deck for that price?

But I responding specifically to the claim that allowing proxies would destroy formats, a thing that is demonstrably not true by comparison to a game that does allow them. Netrunner has a Legacy, Standard and Limited format that all get tournament play.
 


Warpiglet-7

Cry havoc! And let slip the pigs of war!
Because the health of a company and the health of a hobby are not equivalent. The bigger the business the greater the chances of this.

There are stocks and profits to worry about…

when D&D was fringe you court the fringe. When it succeeds and grows, the suits take notice and get more directly involved, make bigger plans…the fringe is now fringe but not catered to.

The little people are again little. It’s creepy but true. With this focus, things get ever more cutthroat. There is more money on the table. Non binding agreements and attitudes become expendable. Gross, but typical.

PepsiCo ain’t worried about the feelings of Coca Cola distributors. And wouldn’t they snatch up territories and resources from them if they could grow their brand?
 

jeffh

Adventurer
That'd be promisory stoppel, you know, the same kind of issue with them going back on their word about a license being allowed in perpetuity... Except milder...
I think you mean estoppel, and the problem with that is, who exactly would the complainant be? Not most of their current audience or even most collectors, who have seen prices go up due to reprints in many cases due to increased demand. In the very common case of once-in-demand cards that are obsolete now, no amount of reprinting is going to budge the price of a Beta version, because it'll still be the Beta version and that's already the only thing it has going for it.

Very few people who want the Reserve List gone want WotC to reprint Black Lotus in a tournament-legal form or anything like that, that could plausibly hurt the value of someone's collection. That's a common strawman but I think everyone understands that's not going to happen no matter what.
 
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Scribe

Legend
Can I interest you in only playing WotC era D&D from now on?

I'm amazed people are outraged that WotC is a greedy company who wants to monetize D&D to the penny but completely cool with WotC refusing to reprint legacy cards from the first decade of Magic's history because some people invested a car's worth into cards and would be sad if their dual lands aren't worth a ps5 a piece.
It's a collectible.

I have no power 9, no Duals. If I needed them, I'd have to pay up.

Instead, I played (before Wizards ruined the game) Modern.

The RL was a promise. Worth exactly nothing with the present leadership but it was a promise.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I think you mean estoppel, and the problem with that is, who exactly would the complainant be? Not most of their current audience or even most collectors, who have seen prices go up due to reprints in many cases due to increased demand. In the very case of once-in-demand cards that are obsolete now, no amount of reprinting is going to budge the price of a Beta version because it'll still be the Beta version and that's already the only thing they have going for them.

Very few people who want the Reserve List gone want WotC to reprint Black Lotus in a tournament-legal form or anything like that, that could plausibly hurt the value of someone's collection. That's a common strawman but I think everyone understands that's not going to happen no matter what.
I meant that their public reason to keep the reserve list is a way milder form of the argument to keep the original OGL as is.
 

jeffh

Adventurer
I meant that their public reason to keep the reserve list is a way milder form of the argument to keep the original OGL as is.
There's a lot of arguments for that (EDIT to clarify: for keeping OGL 1.0a). Promissory estoppel probably doesn't crack the top 5, even from a strictly legal perspective, let alone ethically. But I think I do see what you're getting at for all that.

Also, I'd be extremely surprised (and appreciate a link!) if WotC has said that publicly. Last I checked that was, at best, common fan speculation. But it is possible I'm out of date on this point.
 
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Remathilis

Legend
It's a collectible.

I have no power 9, no Duals. If I needed them, I'd have to pay up.

Instead, I played (before Wizards ruined the game) Modern.

The RL was a promise. Worth exactly nothing with the present leadership but it was a promise.
It was a bad promise. It has hurt the game. And I say that as someone who DOES own a complete collection of Revised, including all the duals.

I just find it ironic to say "D&D belongs to the people" and then say "WotC should make Magic as expensive as possible". But you do you.
 

Scribe

Legend
It was a bad promise. It has hurt the game. And I say that as someone who DOES own a complete collection of Revised, including all the duals.

I just find it ironic to say "D&D belongs to the people" and then say "WotC should make Magic as expensive as possible". But you do you.
Magic can be cheap as hell. They have reprinted a ton of stuff into the ground, 6 feet under, and crushed the value of many manh cards.
 

Haplo781

Legend
I don't think it is from a gameplay perspective, would the game not be meaningfully improved if you could buy all the decks for $300.00 instead of one deck for that price?

But I responding specifically to the claim that allowing proxies would destroy formats, a thing that is demonstrably not true by comparison to a game that does allow them. Netrunner has a Legacy, Standard and Limited format that all get tournament play.
Netrunner 2e has existed for 6 years. Magic is 5x as old.

MtG's first set was closer to the Apollo 11 moon landing than today.

You cannot compare the two like this.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Does anyone have any speculation on why WotC's gone so unhinged?
Hasbro's stock is way overvalued despite dropping in the last year and an actual correction to what it's value should be would basically cause shareholders to replace everyone at the company. So they're scrambling to do whatever they can to keep people believing their valuation is correct and going up instead of way out of line for what they are and what they do.

Just speculation, but executives making bad decisions to keep their stock valuation inflated can often answer a whole lot of questions around "why is this publicly traded company making such stupid short term decisions?"
 

eyeheartawk

#1 Enworld Jerk™
Just speculation, but executives making bad decisions to keep their stock valuation inflated can often answer a whole lot of questions around "why is this publicly traded company making such stupid short term decisions?"
Especially if you keep in mind that most executives at that level receive their compensation in mostly stock. This then in turn incentivizes them to pump up that stock in the short term (as most people at this level are only at a company at that position for a few years). It's why you see businesses make decisions that are only good in the short term and actually harmful in the medium and long term all the time. The only way to fix it is to pay them a salary without stock compensation and obligate them to a fiduciary duty to manage the long-term health of the company.

That, or you know, we eat 'em.
 

Haplo781

Legend
Hasbro's stock is way overvalued despite dropping in the last year and an actual correction to what it's value should be would basically cause shareholders to replace everyone at the company. So they're scrambling to do whatever they can to keep people believing their valuation is correct and going up instead of way out of line for what they are and what they do.

Just speculation, but executives making bad decisions to keep their stock valuation inflated can often answer a whole lot of questions around "why is this publicly traded company making such stupid short term decisions?"
They could realistically lose to Alta Fox and get WotC taken away. That's 70% of their gross revenue.
 

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