D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

More extensive color palate would be good.

And tasty!

 

[Haffrung]

There is nothing wrong with choosing not to partake in an activity because you don't like it, or because it violates your personal belief structure. That can be admirable. There is something very wrong (dumb and wrong) with burning books because you can't see the difference between fiction and reality, and feel the need to enforce your beliefs on the people around you. Moreso when you are claiming D&D causes Satanism, Rape, and Murder.

Is there any more evidence that D&D causes racism than that it causes satanism, rape, and murder?

This is a misunderstanding of the 80s Satanic Panic that mischaracterize the atmosphere of the time and the absolute craziness of some misguided individuals, like Patricia Pulling*, who explicitly argued that D&D caused satanism.

I'm saying the Satanic panic was only part of the opposition to D&D by parents, schools, etc. in the 80s. Here in Canada, there was little public anxiety over satanism. But there was a backlash against D&D, along with things like Conan, Heavy Metal magazine, Iron Maiden and the "Eddie" character, and other fantastical and violent entertainment properties aimed at kids and teens. My cool and liberal art teacher in junior high, for instance, banned any artwork depicting monsters, swords, etc. in his class, following a directive of the public school board.

The intense engagement D&D fostered was regarded as unhealthy for young people, irrespective of occult content. The phrase 'unable to distinguish fantasy from reality' was thrown around a lot.

 

[Guest 6948803]

As someone said before, I can (and will) do nothing because of the change J. Crawford signaled. My gaming will go on undisrupted and unchanged. If in the future, social inclusivity (thanks for the monicker btw.) somehow gets in the way of good story, I simply won’t buy it, not that of a big deal because I don’t buy everything anyway.

But let me tell you about something. When I was a 12-year-old, and a bookworm, I read Wizard of Earthsea, Chronicles of Narnia and 2 Conan stories. Of course, I fallen in love with a genre, and wanted MORE! But there was no more. I lived in communist state, in which some wise people declared, that fantasy isn’t “socially sensitive” enough, so it was not translated and published, period. Same with RPGs – it was 1989 and tabletop gaming enthusiasts whispered about this magnificent D&D game. But of course, no way it would be published, because it wasn’t progressive enough, waste of good paper.

Fast forward 5 years. Regime is gone, people are free to say and publish what they want, bookstores are flooded with fantasy books and we have brand new local edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (still remaining main rpg in my country). People often play RPGs in “school clubs” because it is safe environment and they usually play with school pals anyway. Until principals started banning playing roleplaying games on school premises because, guess what “there are spells and demons in them, and religion teachers are complaining”.

RPGs and politics, either progressive or conservative do not mix well. There are people out there, who, for various reasons would not mind to see gaming neutered to the point of nonsense or gone – some in the name of battling toxic white supremacist masculinity, others in the name of battling satanic influences and others just because rpgs obviously aren’t sports or sciences, so in effect are waste of time for young people.

Again, signaled change doesn’t concern me, and I am all for inclusivity and diversity in roleplaying games. But from this discussion I get the feeling of “you don’t belong, you aren’t sensitive enough, you are not progressive enough, and we want you out” because politics. Makes me sad.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I'm saying the Satanic panic was only part of the opposition to D&D by parents, schools, etc. in the 80s. Here in Canada, there was little public anxiety over satanism. But there was a backlash against D&D, along with things like Conan, Heavy Metal magazine, Iron Maiden and the "Eddie" character, and other fantastical and violent entertainment properties aimed at kids and teens. The intense engagement D&D fostered was regarded as unhealthy for young people, irrespective of occult content. The phrase 'unable to distinguish fantasy from reality' was thrown around a lot.

I cannot speak for Canada; I can speak for the United States, and I can say, unequivocally, that as weird as it might seem now (just as weird as a movie where the plot involves a town that doesn't have dances) this was very much a Satanic Panic. Dungeons and Dragons is the manifestation that we are most familiar with on this board, but it was prevalent in other areas as well:

From rock music (supposed Satanic influences) to crime scene investigations saying that there were Satanic murders to people locked away due to claims of ritualized Satanic child abuse (that were not true).

It wasn't all Pac Man and parachute pants. We can laugh at the kitschiness of Jack Chick tracts now, but the Satanic panic ruined lives then.

 

[Aldarc]

Is there any more evidence that D&D causes racism than that it causes satanism, rape, and murder?

I don’t think it’s a matter of D&D causing racism, but, rather that D&D has racist undertones that makes some of its players uncomfortable. That’s a pretty big difference in argument and tone between the two situations.

 

[TheSword]

As someone said before, I can (and will) do nothing because of the change J. Crawford signaled. My gaming will go on undisrupted and unchanged. If in the future, social inclusivity (thanks for the monicker btw.) somehow gets in the way of good story, I simply won’t buy it, not that of a big deal because I don’t buy everything anyway.

But let me tell you about something. When I was a 12-year-old, and a bookworm, I read Wizard of Earthsea, Chronicles of Narnia and 2 Conan stories. Of course, I fallen in love with a genre, and wanted MORE! But there was no more. I lived in communist state, in which some wise people declared, that fantasy isn’t “socially sensitive” enough, so it was not translated and published, period. Same with RPGs – it was 1989 and tabletop gaming enthusiasts whispered about this magnificent D&D game. But of course, no way it would be published, because it wasn’t progressive enough, waste of good paper.

Fast forward 5 years. Regime is gone, people are free to say and publish what they want, bookstores are flooded with fantasy books and we have brand new local edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (still remaining main rpg in my country). People often play RPGs in “school clubs” because it is safe environment and they usually play with school pals anyway. Until principals started banning playing roleplaying games on school premises because, guess what “there are spells and demons in them, and religion teachers are complaining”.

RPGs and politics, either progressive or conservative do not mix well. There are people out there, who, for various reasons would not mind to see gaming neutered to the point of nonsense or gone – some in the name of battling toxic white supremacist masculinity, others in the name of battling satanic influences and others just because rpgs obviously aren’t sports or sciences, so in effect are waste of time for young people.

Again, signaled change doesn’t concern me, and I am all for inclusivity and diversity in roleplaying games. But from this discussion I get the feeling of “you don’t belong, you aren’t sensitive enough, you are not progressive enough, and we want you out” because politics. Makes me sad.

I don’t believe this is anything like the satanic panic. Sorry to say.

- This is people within the community reflecting and debating how inclusive they are. Not people outside the community calling us bad.

- This a progressive movement looking to broaden ideas, not a reactionary movement trying to keep them static.

- This a worldwide phenomena whereas the satanic panic was largely a US problem. [In the rpg industry]

- Finally while the satanic panic was an attempt to shut down D&D, this is an attempt to open it up in the same way it was opened up to women.

To be clear I don’t agree with everything that’s being suggested and believe that some of the arguments that are being made are well intentioned but pretty distasteful. However the overall trend and direction is great!

 

[Haffrung]

I cannot speak for Canada; I can speak for the United States, and I can say, unequivocally, that as weird as it might seem now (just as weird as a movie where the plot involves a town that doesn't have dances) this was very much a Satanic Panic.

I'm not denying that. I'm pointing out that there were other public anxieties around D&D and other entertainment properties at the time, all with some variation on the themes that young people can't distinguish fantasy from reality, escapism is unhealthy, and depictions of violence make people violent. As Walgierz points out, even officially atheist countries found reason to suppress D&D.

 

[Olrox17]

I don’t think it’s a matter of D&D causing racism, but, rather that D&D has racist undertones that makes some of its players uncomfortable. That’s a pretty big difference in argument and tone between the two situations.

I think people are spotting racism where there is none, which is hardly surprising in the current american climate. When everyone on the news and on the streets is talking about racism, people might end up seeing it where they never saw it before.
The satanic panic became a witch hunt. I hope the "racism panic" won't.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I think people are spotting racism where there is none, which is hardly surprising in the current american climate. When everyone on the news and on the streets is talking about racism, people might end up seeing it where they never saw it before.
The satanic panic became a witch hunt. I hope the "racism panic" won't.

Problem is the world is quite racist. Some rightfully make a big deal out of it. A goddamn lot just endure it. And take the abuse. Talking about in a game is a step forward. Because it is a big issue. And goddamn something needs to be done about it.

 

[Cadence]

I'm not denying that. I'm pointing out that there were other public anxieties around D&D and other entertainment properties at the time, all with some variation on the themes that young people can't distinguish fantasy from reality, escapism is unhealthy, and depictions of violence make people violent. As Walgierz points out, even officially atheist countries found reason to suppress D&D.

In the US, at least it didn't reach the level it did with comics in the 1950s - "Seduction of the Innocent", the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency, and the creation of the Comics Code Authority.