D&D 5E WotC's Stats for Zaknafein Do'Udern

[Weiley31]

So I take it that when making stats for NPCs characters of importance, rolling them up via dice is a bad thing?

 

[Fenris-77]

So I take it that when making stats for NPCs characters of importance, rolling them up via dice is a bad thing?

It's fine if you have no preconceived notions of what the NPC should be able to so. Otherwise, not so much. That said, I suppose that it wouldn't be that hard to create an adjusted stat roll by class kind of thing based on 2d6+ that wouldn't be awful for generic NPCs. Sometimes it is interesting to get an odd stat.

 

[Maxperson]

Because players, especially those playing in an established setting like the Forgotten Realms, are at the table to play the same sorts of adventures they read about Drizzt and Co. having. These NPCs are not gods or monsters; they're adventurers supposedly just like any PC. So if rules come out for them and they're impossible or nearly impossible for PCs to compare to, the question arises what that's supposed to mean. Are the rules for PCs generating only some sort of minor-league hero? If so, why? Why are we playing with those rules? Can we play with the rules that generate actual heroes instead?

EDIT: Note that 5E character creation rules literally use Bruenor Battlehammer and Artemis Entreri as examples.

The 5e character creation rules use 4d6-L as a default method. When you have several million people in a world, there are going to be at least a few hundred with all of their stats really high. Out of that few hundred, you'll have 20 or 30 who become adventurers and make it to very high levels. There's nothing beyond PCs about most of the Forgotten Realms NPCs. PCs are capable of rolling those kinds of stats, too. It's just very unlikely that they will be as lucky.

 

[Weiley31]

I agree with Maxperson. Case in point, the NPC Ranger mentor of my bud's Ranger pc had their stats rolled up via the 4D6-L method.

The stats, after racial modifiers, ended up being STR 15/DEX 18/CON 19/INT 15/WIS 19/14 CHA. And that wasn't including a free level 1 feat that all Major NPCs/PCs, at least in my games, start off with as well. My first ever pc, a Battle Master Fighter, had some pretty good stats when my DM had our group roll for stats.

Salvatore just probably "rolled really good" when it came to Papa Do'Urden.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I guess I understand why they stat these NPC characters but if it were up to me I never would unless they appear in an adventure as a possible opponent and even then I'd use the rules for building NPCs/Monsters rather than the rules for making a PC.

But in general? Like a mention in a setting book or something? I'd just describe personality, history, what is important about them, what their accomplishments are, and what they are good at and maybe a CR rating. Maybe. And then let the DM stat them out as appropriate for their game and use for the character.

I mean, you say that .... but just think of the number of arguments and grief caused by ol' Tolkien by not statting up Gandalf in his various Middle Earth campaign settings.

Really, if he had just given a little bit of thought to making Gandalf's stats and spells more consistent in all those books, he would've saved countless hours of nerd argument, not to mention several Dragon articles. Kind of inconsiderate if you ask me!

 

[Mordhau]

I understand the array of stats for Zaknafein, but I don't understand the values. There is no need to blow up the abilities to such puffery. I get having a high intelligence, Zaknafein was also the strategist for House defense, after all. I agree with @Seramus, use -4 on all the stats and he is still a badass 16th level Battlemaster. You have to retrofit the double longsword style he used in Homeland to fit 5E rules. Give him the ability to make a longsword a finesse weapon or accept that it doesn't fit and switch him to rapiers or scimitars. Zak's ability was in the versatility of his tactics and precision, which are reflected in him being level 16.
I mean if you want him to have jacked stats, give them those stats when he is the Zin'carla and juiced up on concentrated Lolth spite.

Just give him Drow longswords and have them be reskinned rapiers.

Longsword in the terms that D&D means them aren't what everyone outside D&D thinks of as longswords anyway. Clearly WotC thinks they're some kind of really big heavily weighted bastard sword. That doesn't fit what he uses in the books at all. Rapiers fit better.

 

[Mordhau]

This reminds me of when we used to play 2e and we lamented that our pcs ability scores always seemed so low - especially when compared to the NPC heroes.

Then we played a module (I think it was City of Skulls) and saw the Pregen characters and it was a bit of an eye-opener. It turned out we were supposed to cheat.

 

[Fenris-77]

The real lesson here is that NPC stats are like the rest of the game: here's some rules, use 'em if you like. Or don't. Poof problem solved.

 

[Weiley31]

Then we played a module (I think it was City of Skulls) and saw the Pregen characters and it was a bit of an eye-opener. It turned out we were supposed to cheat.

Honestly if I ever get around to playing 1E/BECMI/Advanced DND 2E, I'd be using 5E's dice rolling method of stat generating as a House Rule.

 

[Scribe]

I'm not sure I understand the issue. It's a shared setting, NPCs should be given stats, and FR has powerful NPCs.