WottC Miniature Handbook Same Mistake as Chainmail?

[jollyninja]

truthfully i hope it flops, i am sick of companies putting a new coat of paint on something terrible and trying to sell it again instead of actually listening to the feedback about why their last similar product failed. perhaps it would finally spur them on to create the mass combat book that everyone actually wants. cry havoc is good but it's third party status will stop alot of smaller stores from stocking it, if wotc brought out a similar book, it's sales would crush a great work into nothingness. dnd itself can handle small battles so that get's rid of the core market for such a game and anyone looking for alternatives has mageknight or warhammer/mordhiem allready. it's a small enough market that more options are really not needed.

a fullscale warfare book would have seemed a much better financial move, i thought all they had left there were bean counters.

 

[MerricB]

Rob Heinsoo on the D&D Miniatures Handbook:

It's a hardcover. I think the cost is around $29.95. The cover is great, one of my favorites, ever. The book is presently being typeset.

I know that press releases are in the works, probably being given out at Gencon, so the full news should surface soon if it hasn't already.

The basics: lots of great D&D stuff useable in any D&D rpg campaign (classes, spells, monsters, feats); full head-to-head skirmish rules (including scenarios and campaigns); mass battle rules; random dungeon rules.

__________________
--Rob Heinsoo
D&D Miniatures Lead Designer

 

[pogre]

Thanks MerricB - I was just about to answer my own question by quoting your developer thread.

It sounds suspiciously like the mass combat rules are an afterthought...

We shall see.

 

[Terry Edwards]

A quote from Dragon 311

"The mass battle rules will appear in the Miniatures Handbook this November. Topics include formed and unformed units, spell effects, morale, and how to convert PCs into mass battle characters."

I personally love a good miniatures skirmish since they play quickly (moreso than a D&D combat), are fun and require very few players. I plan to continue with Chainmail to fulfill my mini game needs but for mass combat rules I'll wait until reviews are posted and all options thumbed through before I make a decision.

 

[Green Knight]

Taken from this thread.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1035776&highlight=mass+combat#post1035776

Info from Dragon 311

Harbinger: Sept
Dragon Eye: around Nov

The Entry Pack has skirmish rules while the Miniatures Handbook (Nov) will have the mass combat rules.

There is also an ad for the product on page 19 that has a pic of a displacer beast that looks much better than the previous two DB's. There is a cool concept sketch of the "Aspect of Lloth" onpage 25. Basically a female drider with a thorned whip.

"Aspect creatures are summoned creatures that look just like the deities, demons, and devils whose powers they draw on."

From Gaming Report

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=7906

D&D Miniatures Handbook
192 pgs - HardCover - $29.95 - 965820000
Written by Jonathan Tweet, Bruce R. Cordell

A brand new D&D handbook that details all aspects of miniatures use in roleplaying and head-to-head combat.
The Miniatures Handbook is the newest accessory for players who want to add depth and dimension to their roleplaying game or their miniatures experience. As with other D&D accessories, this title contains new feats, spells, magic items, and prestige classes, and is one of the few titles that adds new base classes to the D&D realm. In addition to these features, this handbook gives expanded rules for three-dimensional, head-to-head miniatures play for both skirmish and mass battle conflicts and is instantly usable with the new D&D miniatures product line, There are new monsters presented with both full D&D and head-to-head statistics, and the book provides competitive scenarios for engaging miniatures combat.

All I could find, so far, but I think it's safe to say there will be mass combat rules.

EDIT: Thanks for the above info from Dragon 311. Looks like I'll have to buy it.

 

[MerricB]

It sounds suspiciously like the mass combat rules are an afterthought...

We shall see.

We certainly shall!

A question does arise as to how much space do mass-combat rules need in a book?

In my case, I'm not looking for ultra-detailed here, I'm looking for playable. I hope I will be impressed.

(I'm as likely to get the miniatures handbook for the random dungeon rules as anything else! )

Cheers!

 

[pogre]

A question does arise as to how much space do mass-combat rules need in a book?

In my case, I'm not looking for ultra-detailed here, I'm looking for playable. I hope I will be impressed.
<snip>

Oh, I agree completely. I'm anxious to see how they handle magic on the battlefield. I just hope the mass combat rules have a tactical feel. Like the ebb and flow of massive armies - not sure that's really in the spirit of D&D as a whole though.

 

[MerricB]

Ultra-detailed was Battlesystem (1E). Eep.

An interesting point that I'm wondering how they'll handle: in mass-combat, figures on the 1:1 scale as opposed to 1:20. In particular - dragons.

A wyrmling dragon for the skirmish system might just represent an old dragon in the mass-combat system...

Cheers!

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

If I wanted to play a skirmish or wargame, I'd break out my Mage Knight Warhammer and Mordheim stuff. WOTC already dropped the ball once, with Chainmail, and they'll probably do it again with this. WOTC should do what they do best and stick to RPGs, preferaby with more Modern support

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

This all just feels less like a void that needed to be filled, and more like "WotC jumps the collectible mini game bandwagon". The only problem is, people like the clix games because everything you need is right there on the base. You don't need stat cards or handbooks. I know lots of MageKnight/Heroclix players who never would have touched a minis game before for that reason alone, myself included. If you want to play a game with handbooks and a bazillion minis, WH40K has been the ranking 800-lb. gorilla for a long time now.

What really cheeses me is that Miniatures Handbook. It sounds like there's plenty of stuff in there (new classes, PrCs, spells, etc.) for people like me who keep the minis to a minimum in their D&D games and actively aren't interested in playing their minis game. I hope it's rules are completely playable without their skirmish game, as I don't need skirmish-level rules.