WottC Miniature Handbook Same Mistake as Chainmail?

[Flexor the Mighty!]

You say that like profit is a bad thing.

Let's get this straight. If any company doesn't make money on their brands they go out of business.

Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here but how exactly is that a better deal?

1. Hasbro is not the only company that could produce D&D.

2. I would rather they drop the game, or go out of buisness than see them warp the game to fit whatever the hot trends are.

3. So to my view it's more important that D&D remain D&D and not a skirmish game, or a game where you have your mini and you move it through the 3d dungeon battling the monsters minis you've picked up in various booster packs.

"D&D 4.0 doesn't use character sheets, that a thing of the past! Now you buy a booster and use what characters you get, keep buying for that super rare Paladin with Vorpal Sword and you will dominate the table! With the new klik base you have all the into you need right there!"


Now you have me talking like I'm rabidly predicting the end of D&D. I'm not, just making conversation.

 

[D'karr]

1. Hasbro is not the only company that could produce D&D.

2. I would rather they drop the game, or go out of buisness than see them warp the game to fit whatever the hot trends are.

Okay, I understand that line of reasoning. I don't agree with it but I understand it.

Since we are dealing with the hypothetical here, what would happen if Hasbro decided to sell out the brand because it was not profitable?

Whomever bought it would start with a brand that was not profitable. Since selling books is usually the only thing that makes the brand profitable the new company would have to sell more books. How would they do that in the most expeditious manner? Probably by releasing a "New and Improved Edition."

This leads back to square one. BTW, the company could also try to be profitable by licensing agreements. However, that is not always very profitable either.

3. So to my view it's more important that D&D remain D&D and not a skirmish game, or a game where you have your mini and you move it through the 3d dungeon battling the monsters minis you've picked up in various booster packs.

Okay, so you want D&D to remain exactly as it is right now. BTW, D&D is a direct descendant of those skirmish games you refer to and the roots are quite deep. So the only way for D&D to remain exactly as you want it is for everyone to stop buying anything from WotC. Their wellspring of money will dry up and they'll go out of business... Do you see the paradox that this creates?

"D&D 4.0 doesn't use character sheets, that a thing of the past! Now you buy a booster and use what characters you get, keep buying for that super rare Paladin with Vorpal Sword and you will dominate the table! With the new klik base you have all the into you need right there!"


Now you have me talking like I'm rabidly predicting the end of D&D. I'm not, just making conversation.

The more things change the more they stay the same. I do not see that the sky is falling.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Profitable to Hasbro and profitable to a smaller RPG company are two vastly different things I think.

 

[D'karr]

Profitable to Hasbro and profitable to a smaller RPG company are two vastly different things I think.

Agreed.

However, how many smaller RPG companies would have the needed amount to buy the property from Hasbro in the first place?

All this is still moot. The OGL has created a much greater market for the Hasbro/WotC product - the PHB.

Probably within the next 2 years companies will start putting out their own PHB's for their settings (e.g. Arcana Unearthed, Everquest, etc.) None of them will have the same clout as the same product put out by WotC under the D&D brand. At least not enough of them to really matter.

Speculating that D&D will become the HeroClix RPG is just a little too far fetched.

WotC will continue to develop in areas that they think are profitable. If they find their next cash cow in their D&D Heroclix then they will continue to produce it. If not the miniatures game will go away just like Chainmail.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Since we are dealing with the hypothetical here, what would happen if Hasbro decided to sell out the brand because it was not profitable?

Whomever bought it would start with a brand that was not profitable. Since selling books is usually the only thing that makes the brand profitable the new company would have to sell more books.

But the issue for Hasbro is not whether it is profitable or not, but rather how profitable is it. Hasbro will drop a product if they wanted it to make a 10% profit and it was only making 5% (I am guessing at figures but the concept is still the same). So if someone else buys the game this does not neccesarily mean that D&D is unprofitable, rather it is not meeting Hasbro's target figures.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

I agree with those who hope that Miniatures makes money for Hasbro. Heck, even in the days of 2E, which I did not like at all, I wanted every tannarri-loving, demon-hating supplement to make money for TSR. The more money the parent company makes, the more it can support the D&D line, in all its diversity. If D&D keeps making money for Hasbro, maybe we won't need Peter Adkison or Jordan Weisman or someone to save the game like Peter and Ryan Dancey did a few years ago (and I really don't think people give them enough credit for literally saving the game). Rooting for your favorite game to fail to make money - any part of your favorite game - is self-defeating at best. I could see being willing to accept a profit dip in the short run to accommodate a change in strategy or something, but in the long run, I want everything even remotely associated with D&D to make money. For example, I want the new D&D movie to make money, even if it sucks. More money is good for everybody, of course, but also that improves the chances of a sequel, and who knows, maybe the fifth movie will finally not suck.

 

[Tidus4444]

I do believe that it is supposed to appeal to a dual audience:
One that likes both DND and mini combat games like MK (me)

DND players who have never tried a minis game, but might since the rules are so similar to D20

MK players. Hey this game is pretty cool! Maybe I oughtta try out the full game!

People who need low cost minis for dnd games.

 

[Vecna]

I don't care about miniatures, but I like the "divine sorcerer" class.
I won't buy anything collectible however, I just had enough with MtG...

 

[Tidus4444]

I rather like the collectable aspect of the game. I used to play YGO, but I never bought boosters, and relied on the secondary market. I got fed up with paying 40 bucks for a card and walked away. But the most expensive rares I've seen for MK were only 20, most of them being 10-15. In addtion, you need 40-60 cards for a card game, but only 4-12 minis for a minis game. Far cheaper.

 

[Vecna]

I do believe that it is supposed to appeal to a dual audience:
One that likes both DND and mini combat games like MK (me)

DND players who have never tried a minis game, but might since the rules are so similar to D20

Chainmail has been a failure.
WotC believed D&D would have been a support for their main product, Chainmail.

LOL!