Would anyone prefer spellcasting to stay as it is?

[Kahuna Burger]

There's already an encounter-based mechanic in 3e core - barbarian's fatigue after rage.

Which is strangely accompanied by a per day limit as well, but yes, that's a good example of an effective per encounter limit that also makes sense for the ability. Something like psionic focus where your big guns require "releasing" something that is a hassle to try to get back in the middle of combat is another.

 

[Branduil]

I hate hate hate Vancian spellcasting. If 4E can partially kill it off that's a great step forward IMO.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm not necessarily a fan of spell memorization but I am very much a proponent of daily limits on what a caster can do. Attrition *is* important, be it to hit points, spells, resources, or whatever.

A sorceror-like mechanic is the way to go, I think; where you have x slots per level per day but you can use those slots to cast any spell in your book. No pre-memorization (just a general study period each day to refresh knowledge of all spells), but you still have to track slots remaining for each level. You can still run out of gas, but you're way more flexible before you do.

Lanefan

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have a feeling we might see all spell durations longer than instant changed to one encounter or one day. None of this 1 round/level, 1 min/level, 10 min/level, 1 hr/level stuff. And it would be a good thing if they do. It was really hard to track these durations anyway and really came down to GM fiat as to whether buffs were still up.

 

[SkidAce]

im in two minds

i kinda like Vancian magic but

knowing that at each encounter the party will be at more-or-less full assests will make thing so much easier to prep and prepare, and the lets sleep as we are a bit worn down even though its only 11am is probably sensible, it is also a bit naff gaming/continuity-wise

john

Now they will NEVER sleep.....fighting on thru the dungeons for days...

/tongueincheek

 

[WayneLigon]

Nope, toss it, toss all of it. Get rid of slots, preperation, the classic spells, everything about it. The current magic system has been a stone around D&D's neck since it was created. Good riddance.

 

[FireLance]

I suspect the likely scenario will be the mage gets a basic attack at will based on reserved feats or similar mechanism and that works as a range touch attack and is as effective as missile weapons (e.g. 1d6 or 1d8 damage) and they have recoverable resources that can enhance this effect (or feats). This effect can be used pretty much at will

In addition they probalbly will get some spells that will work similar to the book of the nine swords manouvers and are recoverable between encounters. Buffs and single target save or die spells would be canditated for this.

Then they may through in a few vancian major spells that alter space time and reality on a per day limited usage. Area clearance spells, teleports, wish and so forth may fall in to that category.

That's the way I think the magic system will change in 4e, too. There will be some at-will abilities, which will probably scale with level. There will be some "per encounter" abilities which will either explicitly refresh between encounters, or have a recharge time that effectively means that a spellcaster can only recover them between encounters (e.g. 1 minute of meditation). In addition, there will be some "per day" abilities which the spellcaster can only prepare at the start of the day, or with a fresh mind.

I think per encounter and per day abilities will still make use of spell slots, but I see a drastic reduction in the number of spell slots available. I also think that spell slots will no longer be tied to level (similar to the maneuver system in Bo9S), and the real limitations will be on the number of high-level spells known. I also see a streamlining of the spell system so that a single spell can have varying but related effects at higher levels, so that could be a single cure wounds spell that heals 1d4 hit points per caster level, and a single restoration spell that would be able to remove a variety of negative effects depending on caster level.

 

[TheArcane]

Okay, I correct myself - logic is completely irrelevant. However, although the way I see the wizard now is just the way I've been taught to see it in years of older editions, computer RPG's and fantasy books, I think that departing completely from some of it's most basic concepts is departing from a big part of D&D as we know it.

Maybe I'll come up with something more detailed, but what I'd like to see is:
- No at will abilities, as I think it's ridiculous that "we wanted the wizard to have something interesting to do when he's run out of spells, so we just made it so he never runs out!" At the least, there should be a concentration/constitution check and penalties for severe failures as the wizard tries to exert himself beyond his limit.
- Some spells could become per-encounter, some remain per-day, based on their effects, naturally, and explained by how strenuous they are to cast.
- Some form of preparation must remain, as someone proposed in an earlier reply a wizard could make some form of hastened preparation between encounters.
- Spellbooks need to stay as they are, maybe with simplified mechanics for editing them.
- Wish needs to remain per-year.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I wish that the whole Vancian system would completely vanish, myself. It requires a lot of book-keeping (more than fits on a character sheet), is mostly illogical (well, Wizards anyways, Socerers are logical enough), requires far too much time looking in books for specific spell effects, and requires far too much space in books dedicated to listing out hundreds of spells. Also, the whole premise of a character who alternates between being stronger than anyone else and useless is flawed. Attrition is a great concept, but everyone in the party should be losing resources at the same rate, or else the idea is highly undermined. Having weak characters who fight all day and strong characters who can fight for a limited amount of time will inherently lead to problems, for many reasons.

I would prefer an expanded Warlock-style or Tome of Battle-style magic system, or some mechanic in which the primary limitations on a mage's ability to use magic are both the cost he is willing to pay in some resource, and the time he wants to spend casting the spell. After all, it is hard to justify that instant effects like Fireball and complex spells that take an hour to complete both require the same resource of a spell slot, when they seem like they should be so different... Argh, I am not explaining this very well...

 

[Eagle Prince]

Is it true 4e will have 25 levels of vancian spells? PLUS per-encounter blasty-spells (ie fireball maybe), PLUS at-will stuff like mage armor and magic missile? LESS book-keeping?? If this is true, then yeah I'd rather spellcasting stay the same.