Would anyone prefer spellcasting to stay as it is?

[FireLance]

Is it true 4e will have 25 levels of vancian spells? PLUS per-encounter blasty-spells (ie fireball maybe), PLUS at-will stuff like mage armor and magic missile? LESS book-keeping?? If this is true, then yeah I'd rather spellcasting stay the same.

Yes. Less book-keeping. Currently, a 20th-level wizard probably has a spell book of over 50 spells from which he prepares 40+ actual spells per day. 40+ separate spells (even if he does prepare multiple compies of some of his favorites) is a lot of individual abilities to keep in mind any any one time. For some players, it can be a daunting task, even if they have played that wizard since 1st level and have had a long time to get used to his abilities. A DM who is preparing that wizard as an NPC is in an even worse position, and some fudge this by ignoring spells below a certain level. A game designer doesn't have that luxury - he has to detail out that wizard down to his last cantrip.

Now, if you cut down on the number of individual spells to say, six per day spells, six per encounter spells, and a smaller number of at will spells, you've cut the number of separate abilities you have to keep track of by more than half.

 

[Li Shenron]

- Wizards possess great power, way beyond fighter-type classes, at least that's the way I see it. The tradeoff is having limited use of it. Giving the wizard some form of unlimited casting, without breaking the game, has to be accompanied either by some weakening of spells or massive reduction of powerful spell uses per-day/encounter/whatever or something like that. It would just ruin the experience for me, giving up Meteor Swarms of Doom for the ability to fling around magic missiles at will.

It's possible that they kind of merged the vancian-based Wizard with the Warlock "at will" abilities, for example.

"At will" spells could be (1) very limited in what they can do (probably mostly damage, or very short-time buffs/debuffs), and (2) significantly less powerful than "per day" spells.

So what about a Wizard that has 1 only Time Stop and 1 only Meteor Swarm per day, but has unlimited Ray of Frosts and Mage Hand?

Personally I have to say that I NEVER felt like a 3.0 wizard or sorcerer had nothing to do... Shooting Crossbow is not "doing nothing", except maybe at levels 10+, at which point usually a 3.0 wizard has enough spells that she never runs out completely.

Anyway, the big difference is IMHO dictated by the same change in a Cleric. Will healing spells go under the "at will/per encounter" group or under the per day? This is going to change all adventures... It means that a group will never stop fighting until the end of the adventure. It's a huge blow to realism, but it's a big boost to movie-like action, where the protagonists never tire and never rest.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'll reserve judgment until I see the new system.

I do like Vancian magic. I like that the wizard can swing from a utility caster to a blaster by his selection of prepared spells (unlike the sorcerer, who is essentially stuck in his niche once he picks his spells). I like the flavor of a wizard searching for books and scrolls to add to his tome of knowledge. I like that the most powerful of a wizard's abilities are limited to a few uses per day, so that he isn't constantly overshadowing other members of the party. I like that the wizard is frail, so that it encourages team play.

If they can maintain all of that feel and the options while shifting away from the traditional D&D system, it may be fine.

 

[glass]

I suspect the likely scenario will be the mage gets a basic attack at will based on reserved feats or similar mechanism and that works as a range touch attack and is as effective as missile weapons (e.g. 1d6 or 1d8 damage) and they have recoverable resources that can enhance this effect (or feats). This effect can be used pretty much at will

In addition they probalbly will get some spells that will work similar to the book of the nine swords manouvers and are recoverable between encounters. Buffs and single target save or die spells would be canditated for this.

Then they may through in a few vancian major spells that alter space time and reality on a per day limited usage. Area clearance spells, teleports, wish and so forth may fall in to that category.

They did say that vancian magic will 'mostly' be gone, which does suggest entirely. Personally, I hope casters are at will plus vancian*. Per encounter seems a better fit for warriors to me.


glass.

*Actually, I really mean daily rather than vancian here. I like vancian magic for wizards for flavour reasons, but I have never liked it for clerics, druids, paladins, etc...

 

[Wormwood]

Nope, toss it, toss all of it. Get rid of slots, preperation, the classic spells, everything about it. The current magic system has been a stone around D&D's neck since it was created. Good riddance.

Repeated. In Bold.

 

[Horacio]

I hate Vancian magic, it's the main reason why I have never played a Wizard. Sorcerers in 3e were, IMHO, a step in the right direction. And the changes in 4e seems to mark a very positive turn in spellcasting. So not, I wouldn't prefer spellcasting staying as it is.

 

[Baby Samurai]

As they said Vancian is "mostly" gone, I believe they will have more powerful effects useable per day, and other abilities that will be per encounter.

And I also agree with:

-Completely rebuild, from the ground up, the antiquated, overpowered, pseudo-Vancian, Gygaxian magic/spell system. It's basically a cut & paste from 1st/2nd edition anyway.

The D&D magic/spell system has been a thorn in my side for about 20 years.

 

[MerricB]

Hi, guys!

Mouseferatu has posted on his blog a few of the 4e changes:
http://mouseferatu.livejournal.com/497515.html

For spellcasting, a wizard will have...
...1/day abilities
...1/encounter abilities.
...at will abilities

How much 1/day will be Vancian is unclear - quite possible it will be retained, but I like that breakdown a lot.

 

[Thurbane]

I may be in the minority, but I DO hope casting stays the way it is.

If and when Vancian casting eventually disappears from D&D, a little part of what makes D&D special to me will be gone. I still have fond memories of some of my earliest characters agonizing over what to memorize for the coming day.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

the time he wants to spend casting the spell. After all, it is hard to justify that instant effects like Fireball and complex spells that take an hour to complete both require the same resource of a spell slot, when they seem like they should be so different... Argh, I am not explaining this very well...

I've advocated a system with time to cast as the major factor myself - like the highest level spells you can cast take one minute, next down is two full rounds, then one full round, one action, move action, swift action....