would Iron Heroes villain classes work in other games?

[Gundark]

I am considering using Aracana evolved in my next homebrew (classes & magic) anyhow I'm wondering if the villian classes from Iron Heroes would work in this setting (and others). Stating up guys is my least favourite thing to do about D&D. Normally when I have played 3.5 I use etools.

 

[Staffan]

The main problem I see is handling gear. Either you give them useful magic gear, which makes them more powerful; or you don't give them any gear, in which case players might feel "cheated" by not getting any treasure; or you just give them money (including gems and art and stuff - things that don't do anything on their own) and the PCs wonder why they didn't use some of that money to acquire helpful items.

Or you could give them useful items and assume that their stats already include those.

 

[Pbartender]

The main problem I see is handling gear. Either you give them useful magic gear, which makes them more powerful; or you don't give them any gear, in which case players might feel "cheated" by not getting any treasure; or you just give them money (including gems and art and stuff - things that don't do anything on their own) and the PCs wonder why they didn't use some of that money to acquire helpful items.

...and how is that really any different from standard D&D?


Since IH villian classes are based off of CR ratings, I don't see any reason you shouldn't use them. Just equip them appropriately -- A demonic brute is unlikely to have much equipment or treasure, but a dread sorcerer would likely have some scrolls/potions/wands, and a warleader will undoubtedly have useful armor and weapons.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Sure. Because this is the basic principle of a straightforward opponent. You don't need to know everything about the creature. Just how much it can take and how much damage it can give out. Me personally I'd be inclined to forego a lot of treasure on those encounters and add a little to the regular ones because it would require more calculations. But that's just me.

 

[Staffan]

...and how is that really any different from standard D&D?

Yes. In regular D&D, a character's power is the sum of his inherent abilities plus his gear. When you beat an opponent, you get to add his gear to yours - even if the gear isn't directly useful, you can sell it and buy other stuff.

The whole point of Iron Heroes is to remove gear from the equation, and increasing the inherent portion to compensate. The villain classes are designed in the same way.

It's not really a big problem, but it does require some fiddling.

 

[Pbartender]

Yes. In regular D&D, a character's power is the sum of his inherent abilities plus his gear.

Sure, but in D&D an opponent's power isn't necessarily tied into his gear (just like IH villain classes)... In D&D, some monsters give more treasure than others, and most monsters don't bother using any magic gear they happen to have in their horde.

You end up with the same spectrum in D&D, is my point... Monsters with magic gear that increases their power (without increasing CR or gained XP), monsters without magic gear of any sort, and mosters with just monetary (or artwork or jewelry or gems) treasure.

What's more, unless the DM rigs it himself, they could all be the same monster, since D&D treasure is normally rolled randomly.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I am considering using Aracana evolved in my next homebrew (classes & magic) anyhow I'm wondering if the villian classes from Iron Heroes would work in this setting (and others).

The short answer is "YES". The long answer is found in all of the previous posts.

 

[whydirt]

What would be awesome is if Monte released a standalone .pdf of these villain classes since at the moment I have no plans to buy the IH book containing them.

 

[JohnSnow]

For the record, the villain classes in the Iron Heroes Bestiary alone are definitely worth the price of the book, especially at pdf prices.

They allow you to present a CR-appropriate encounter without worrying whether the PCs can abuse the villain's gear afterwards. They get their treasure as a reward (read: gift) from a noble for defeating the demon (or whatever). So, for example, you can run scenarios in a high-medieval or oriental setting where the PCs would never THINK of looting the bodies of their opponents. It's a win-win. So yes, I'd say the villain classes can work fine in other systems. They're CR-balanced, so no worries about adding magical gear to them.

And I woulda bought Mastering Iron Heroes just for the Villain classes, but Mike's variant take on NPC classes is also good, and one could argue that Zones and the variant XP rules are also worth it all by themselves. Definitely, it's a great value for the price.

There's just too much crunchy goodness in those books. I'll probably never run a d20 game again without using at least some of the rules.

 

[ValhallaGH]

For the record, the villain classes in the Iron Heroes Bestiary alone are definitely worth the price of the book, especially at pdf prices.

They allow you to present a CR-appropriate encounter without worrying whether the PCs can abuse the villain's gear afterwards. They get their treasure as a reward (read: gift) from a noble for defeating the demon (or whatever). So, for example, you can run scenarios in a high-medieval or oriental setting where the PCs would never THINK of looting the bodies of their opponents. It's a win-win. So yes, I'd say the villain classes can work fine in other systems. They're CR-balanced, so no worries about adding magical gear to them.

And I woulda bought Mastering Iron Heroes just for the Villain classes, but Mike's variant take on NPC classes is also good, and one could argue that Zones and the variant XP rules are also worth it all by themselves. Definitely, it's a great value for the price.

Word.