Would like some help evaluating an item

[scott2978]

As a DM who gives out highly customized gear, I can see some stuff between the lines here.

First, nobody else in the group has a comparable weapon. That makes you uncomfortable. That in turn means that you were not consulted on this development.

Also, I get the sence that you dislike being forced into a certain role in the party, and you'd rather have things play out more... naturally.

Final, I'm guessing that you are somewhat worried about your DM's reaction to your feelings on the matter, either because you don't want to hurt his feelings by seeming ungrateful or some other reason.

The good news is, there's help out there.

What you need to do is first, determine clearly and without doubt exactly what it is that makes you most uncomfortable about it. Then, you need to confront the DM with your clear picture and discuss it with him. For such a specialized weapon, it seems like the DM has some story in mind that he wants the group (or PC) to be ready for. Maybe the two of you can work something out.

To have fun, the game needs to be played within acceptable parameters in place. Otherwise the DM is just creating a story of his own design and the PC 's are on a choo choo train.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, it's actually something between this particular DM and me. he likes me way too much. I have to be careful at the table, lest my view on things becomes the game reality. He folds way too easily when we disagree on just about anything.

So when he was handing out goodies, and the prize of the pot comes with a bow and a gift tag already made out, well, it just feels wrong.

And when the weapon makes no sense, in that that same weapon didn't display any special damage bonus, either as extra dice or as points from Charisma, when the enemy Bard used it against us, well that just makes it feel more wrong.

It looked like he was making it up on the spot. He described it as a Rapier that did two dice of damage instead of one, and three against Lycanthropes, among other things. When someone questioned how we should price it, he had to start considering it from a rules basis, so "three dice against Lycanthropes" became "Lycanthrope Bane", which would actually make it do four dice against them. (Two dice base, plus two more from Bane.)

And while it might be a relatively weak +6, it's a +6 in a game where nobody else has ever seen a +4.

 

[Loonook]

Well, it's actually something between this particular DM and me. he likes me way too much. I have to be careful at the table, lest my view on things becomes the game reality. He folds way too easily when we disagree on just about anything.

So when he was handing out goodies, and the prize of the pot comes with a bow and a gift tag already made out, well, it just feels wrong.

And when the weapon makes no sense, in that that same weapon didn't display any special damage bonus, either as extra dice or as points from Charisma, when the enemy Bard used it against us, well that just makes it feel more wrong.

It looked like he was making it up on the spot. He described it as a Rapier that did two dice of damage instead of one, and three against Lycanthropes, among other things. When someone questioned how we should price it, he had to start considering it from a rules basis, so "three dice against Lycanthropes" became "Lycanthrope Bane", which would actually make it do four dice against them. (Two dice base, plus two more from Bane.)

And while it might be a relatively weak +6, it's a +6 in a game where nobody else has ever seen a +4.

Again, it isn't worth as much as a +4 weapon, straight +4 longsword of same type will be around 4k higher if the DM screwed up calling Cold Iron instead of Silver. If he wants it to be Cold Iron and take into account the extra enchantment costs it is still only slightly above a +4 item and weaker.

I think you're reading a bit too much into it.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Greenfield]

I'm confused. How are you working the numbers?

By my math, a +2 cold iron rapier, +1D6 untyped damage, + Weapon Finesse feat, + Charisma bonus to damage, Lycanthrope bane, counts as at least +6, which makes it at least 74,000 gp, and perhaps as much as 82,000 gp (counting the +2000 gp extra for enchanting cold iron against each separate enhancement).

A +4 long sword is 32,000 gp last time I looked.

Even giving a 10% discount for the class restriction it's still more than twice the price. At least by my math.

How are you running the numbers?

 

[Greenfield]

I was thinking about a comment made, about the Bard never being a front-liner.

There's a spell my Bard is quite fond of, called Siren's Grace. It bumps both Dex and Charisma by 4, adds your Charisma bonus to your AC as a Dodge, and lets you breath and swim underwater.

The last part isn't much, but this adds +10 to his already acceptable AC. So squishy he might be, in terms of hit points, but with that AC bump he's far from squishy when melee comes around.

Now I may make a "counter offer" to the DM in terms of the obvious gift he tossed in there.

Consider this as an alternative: Crystal Echoblade rapier +2, Lycanthrope bane. Maybe add "Singing", as in a dice of sonic in place of that untyped D6 bonus.

I'll toss it into the ring and see if anybody objects.

Technically, we haven't identified the item yet, so the Dm can change it.

Thanks for the pointer towards Crystal Echoblade, BTW.

 

[Loonook]

I was thinking about a comment made, about the Bard never being a front-liner.

There's a spell my Bard is quite fond of, called Siren's Grace. It bumps both Dex and Charisma by 4, adds your Charisma bonus to your AC as a Dodge, and lets you breath and swim underwater.

.

Yeah, still not going to be (or shouldn't be) a frontliner... By that logic the Fighter or Rogue would benefit more from the spell and the Rogue would have UMD, and you're actually going to give yourself more damage to do than the original item, but still complaining about it...

Alright, there's not a lot of help I can do for you then.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Greenfield]

Going to do more damage?

My character has 9 Bard levels and two Sublime Chord levels. To me that looks like +5 damage that might eventually grow to +9. And that only applies while he's performing Bardic Music.

The effects of Bard's songs linger for 5 rounds, or 10 if you have the Lingering Song feat. The bonus damage won't, because it specifically says that the damage only occurs when the Bard is using Bardic Music. He has a limited number of times per day that he can use that.

His Charisma bonus is currently 6, and with his common combat spells goes to +8.

Half my Bard level is less than the Charisma bonus, and is likely to stay that way for a while, as more powerful stat items come into play.

A D6 of Sonic damage v a D6 of untyped damage? Energy resistances can apply to the Sonic damage (though there aren't many things with Sonic resistance, I admit). But the generic D6 of extra damage isn't an Energy damage, so it would multiply when the character Crits. Sonic damage won't.

Feycraft drops the base damage from a D6 to a D4 for the blade (Feycraft can be found in DMG II).

So where's this "more damage" that you mention? I'm not seeing it myself.

 

[Noumenon]

This reminds me of my "I don't like my Christmas present!" thread. Basically it's near-impossible for a GM to give out treasure that actually makes a player happy, due to Monty Haul fears, wealth by level tables, and party sharing needs. It's sad but true, and I haven't found a fix for it yet.

 

[Dandu]

The solution is to not give PCs treasure, but instead, take them away!

 

[Loonook]

Going to do more damage?

My character has 9 Bard levels and two Sublime Chord levels. To me that looks like +5 damage that might eventually grow to +9. And that only applies while he's performing Bardic Music.

The effects of Bard's songs linger for 5 rounds, or 10 if you have the Lingering Song feat. The bonus damage won't, because it specifically says that the damage only occurs when the Bard is using Bardic Music. He has a limited number of times per day that he can use that.

His Charisma bonus is currently 6, and with his common combat spells goes to +8.

Half my Bard level is less than the Charisma bonus, and is likely to stay that way for a while, as more powerful stat items come into play.

A D6 of Sonic damage v a D6 of untyped damage? Energy resistances can apply to the Sonic damage (though there aren't many things with Sonic resistance, I admit). But the generic D6 of extra damage isn't an Energy damage, so it would multiply when the character Crits. Sonic damage won't.

Feycraft drops the base damage from a D6 to a D4 for the blade (Feycraft can be found in DMG II).

So where's this "more damage" that you mention? I'm not seeing it myself.

So are you just not reading the posts I have made with all of this information clearly outlined with costs? I looked up your character... you came up with a half-satyr bard that is pretty much built by us at ENWorld, and most of your posts regarding it are complaints re: the DM and your treasure.

I laid out all of the damage information for average damage above, along with the option. The Echoblade would last through the lingering period, and could just be made to be Harmonizing to increase this length by 10 rounds past your lingering point/concentration break. Also, sonic resistance is usually included in a suite of energy resistances, making any damage balance worthless.

As I stated above the loss of d2 will be a single point of damage, so you could either boost the item by +1 enhancement, or hell even take the additional +1 damage as an 'enhanced' version of the feycraft for a higher amount (also presented, and not game-breaking), or just pay an additional amount and NOT use feycraft and go with the feat addendum (probably worth around 1-3k).

Again: The item is balanced no matter how you slice it and you're actually trying to make it better than you had it if your DM allows for Bardic PrCs to continue the Bard levels for purposes of damage. It is again all listed above... All of it is.

Slainte,

-Loonook.