D&D General Would Mercer’s Bloodhunter be balanced with no self harm damage?

[doctorbadwolf]

Simple question, really.

Looking at the class, I’m not sure what about it requires the mallus of taking damage, in order to be balanced, which means the class is lowkey underpowered. The things you get just don’t merit “give this an extra price”, unless I’m missing something.

So would you (those who allow the class) ditch the blood price, give more damage but keep the price, or keep it as is and just keep an eye on balance in play?

 

[CleverNickName]

I'd say "keep it as-is," and just watch it closely. Every table is going to have a different party composition and different amounts of combat (of different difficulty), so hit points as a resource will have different weight. The Blood Hunter as-written might work pretty well for Matt Mercer, his campaign, and his players, but you might have a very different result.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'd say "keep it as-is," and just watch it closely. Every table is going to have a different party composition and different amounts of combat (of different difficulty), so hit points as a resource will have different weight. The Blood Hunter as-written might work pretty well for Matt Mercer, his campaign, and his players, but you might have a very different result.

Yeah tbh that’s why I hate hp as an ability resource, it is vastly too session dependent, much less campaign dependent, making the class balance swing all over the place. TBH I think the class is a bit weak even in their campaign though.

 

[CleverNickName]

Yeah tbh that’s why I hate hp as an ability resource, it is vastly too session dependent, much less campaign dependent, making the class balance swing all over the place. TBH I think the class is a bit weak even in their campaign though.

Maybe the Blood Hunter could spend Hit Dice instead of hp? Like, once per turn (maybe as a reaction?) a BH can add one of their Hit Dice to a damage roll.

 

[Charlaquin]

I have never had a blood hunter in my campaign, but taking your word for it that they feel underpowered with the self-damage, I suspect it may have been included purely as a flavor feature, rather than a balancing factor. If so, and if they are in need of a boost, I would be more inclined to give them a bigger hit die than to increase their damage output. If self-damage leaves them without enough HP to work with, then having more HP in the first place seems like the obvious solution. Then you keep the flavor of the self-damage, but are still left with a character who has normal survivability, rather than compounding the volatile glass canon design.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I have never had a blood hunter in my campaign, but taking your word for it that they feel underpowered with the self-damage, I suspect it may have been included purely as a flavor feature, rather than a balancing factor. If so, and if they are in need of a boost, I would be more inclined to give them a bigger hit die than to increase their damage output. If self-damage leaves them without enough HP to work with, then having more HP in the first place seems like the obvious solution. Then you keep the flavor of the self-damage, but are still left with a character who has normal survivability, rather than compounding the volatile glass canon design.

That ain’t a bad idea I suppose.

Another way to go could be to make it so they can activate their special extra damage state when they damage an enemy or as a bonus action by taking damage or spending a hit point die themselves. So basically it’s up to the player if they want to come out swords blazing at max with a small extra cost or use that first attack to activate the bonus damage state.

Flavor preserved, balance attained. Probably.

Maybe the Blood Hunter could spend Hit Dice instead of hp? Like, once per turn (maybe as a reaction?) a BH can add one of their Hit Dice to a damage roll.

Combined with the option of activating it as a bonus action when you deal damage, and not having to spend anything when you do it that way, definitely.

Or simply “HD but once per day you can do it without spending HD.” Because hit point dice are valuable.

 

[CleverNickName]

Or simply “HD but once per day you can do it without spending HD.” Because hit point dice are valuable.

Hit Dice are very valuable, yes...and they're not as easily restored as hit points are. Hmm....

...well, I guess you could turn all sorts of dials to make it work the way you need:

• You could let the player add their Hit Dice to all damage rolls until the end of their turn.
• or the player add their Constitution modifier to the Hit Dice spent in this manner.
• maybe add that Hit Dice to the attack roll instead of the damage roll?
• or let the player add that Hit Dice to both the attack roll and damage roll for one attack?
• Let the player spend more than one Hit Dice per turn.

Personally, for my table and the way my players handle themselves in combat, I'd go with this: "when you successfully hit a creature with a weapon attack, you may spend your reaction and one or more Hit Dice to deal 10 points of additional necrotic damage to that attack. This extra damage increases by 10 for each additional Hit Dice spent."