say a 5th level fighter with a constitution of 18 takes the average on hitpoints. that would give him 10+(5.5*4)+20=52hps. if he became a vampire he'd have, taking the average 5d12=32hps. my question is...does he lose hit points? if you have a 5th level fighter with 52hp's and he becomes a vampire...do you reroll his hit die and add the old constitution modifier and then don't add it on new hit die if he goes up in class level? i understand that vampires don't have a constitution score but it seems unfair to take away that many hit points for becoming a vampire. does the damage reduction and fast healing make up for it? certainly. but are they supposed to go down in hp's is all i'm asking.
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would vampire's hit points go down?
- Thread starter 00durrin
- Start date
the Jester
Legend
Just as if you'd lost your con bonus due to permanent con drain, you lose your con bonus if you don't have a con score anymore.
Think of those bonus hps as the result of the fighter's health. Well, he doesn't have any health once he's a vampire.
Think of those bonus hps as the result of the fighter's health. Well, he doesn't have any health once he's a vampire.
da chicken
First Post
IMX, when I convert a creature's hit die, I reroll the new hit die and take the higher number.
That is, if a Wizard becomes a Lich, his level 1 hp becomes 12 (it's always maximum), and he gets to roll 1d12 for each wizard hit die. He takes the new hit die amount unless it would be lower than his old roll for that level. If he rolled a 3 for Wizard level 2 (before his Con modifier), and rolls a 2 on the d12 when he transforms, he keeps the 3. If he rolls a 4 or more, he gets that.
Of course, if you don't track the hp gained/level, you just reroll hit points Or, take the new average, 12 + 6.5 * (level - 1) in this case. Or, you can give them max hp at 1st, and then +1 hp per level per die step. That's +4 for d4 to d12, or +1 for d10 to d12.
In any event, I argue the new form should never have a lower hit point total than the original (discounting hp from lost Con scores).
That is, if a Wizard becomes a Lich, his level 1 hp becomes 12 (it's always maximum), and he gets to roll 1d12 for each wizard hit die. He takes the new hit die amount unless it would be lower than his old roll for that level. If he rolled a 3 for Wizard level 2 (before his Con modifier), and rolls a 2 on the d12 when he transforms, he keeps the 3. If he rolls a 4 or more, he gets that.
Of course, if you don't track the hp gained/level, you just reroll hit points Or, take the new average, 12 + 6.5 * (level - 1) in this case. Or, you can give them max hp at 1st, and then +1 hp per level per die step. That's +4 for d4 to d12, or +1 for d10 to d12.
In any event, I argue the new form should never have a lower hit point total than the original (discounting hp from lost Con scores).
Henry
Autoexreginated
Also look at it this way. The fighter's new health is not just measured in vitality any more. He now has immunity to critical hits, damage resistance, immunity to poison or ANY CON-draining attack, and certain elemental resistances. In a way, he is HEALTHIER now than he ever was. It's just that now, you have to literally hack him apart to kill him, as opposed to a lucky crit or ability damage.
The eternal sickliness, the constant hunger, and the soul-destroying damnation is a small trade for all that unkillability, don't you think?
The eternal sickliness, the constant hunger, and the soul-destroying damnation is a small trade for all that unkillability, don't you think?
Valmur_Dwur
First Post
Well from what I read in the MM yes you do lose the Con bonus. The way I would do it IMC is give 12+roll 4d12 or take the average(32). Remember he's not a human fighter anymore he's a vampire(template) with fighter levels. It's not much but it is the difference.
Enjoy
Enjoy
James McMurray
First Post
Don't forget damage reduction and fast healing. Even with a loss of 20 hit points, that fighter is going to be a lot harder to kill than he previously was. Letting him keep his old hitpoints would make him even more powerful.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I have only one problem with the vampire template: I see no reason not to throw elven sorcerer vampires at my party. Charisma boost, Domination (Supernatural) based on Charisma, Charisma instead of Con for Concentration, a massive increase in hp, natural armor is always a plus, etc.
It's the criticals
I think being immune to criticals (like mentioned above) is a big deal to a fighter who faces many rapiers and greataxes in his undead career. This fact balances for a humanoid vampire with low Hit Dices, but dragons on the other hand (with naturally high Hit Dices) that becomes dracoliches gets the shaft(tm) as a living elder dragon would make mince bone (criticals hardly enter the equation in a dragon fight with 20/x2 critical threat and multiplier) out of an elder dracolich and destroy the undead spirit forever using innate magic or foreign magical aid.
I think being immune to criticals (like mentioned above) is a big deal to a fighter who faces many rapiers and greataxes in his undead career. This fact balances for a humanoid vampire with low Hit Dices, but dragons on the other hand (with naturally high Hit Dices) that becomes dracoliches gets the shaft(tm) as a living elder dragon would make mince bone (criticals hardly enter the equation in a dragon fight with 20/x2 critical threat and multiplier) out of an elder dracolich and destroy the undead spirit forever using innate magic or foreign magical aid.
