Seriously, I'd like to see a book that dealt with NPC's and the Good alignment. I've always wanted to run a game where the main villain was actually good, but for whatever reason, he needed to hinder or eliminate the party, even if the party was made up of good-aligned members. I'd like to see tips for things like that, and I've also liked a lot of the suggestions up above.
Would you buy a Book of Exalted Deeds?
- Thread starter Enkhidu
- Start date
Celebrim
Legend
The question is itself flawed in its premises, and the particular flaw it has is suggestive of what is worrisome about the attention BoVD is getting.
The assumption is that I should be strongly interested in ANYTHING simply because it deals with some sort of subject matter. Why should I be excited to hear that WotC is going to publish a book on evil? Why should I be excited to hear that WotC is going to publish a book on good? I simply don't have enough informatino to answer the question one way or the other. Maybe I'd be more interested in BoED than in BoVD. Maybe it would be the other way around. I don't know until I know more about them than I do, which is practically nothing despite all the hype and all the threads I've read.
Yet there seems alot of people are celebrating BoVD as a great thing without even knowing its contents or assessing its quality? Why? How?
Part of the problem may be that I'm already a pretty imaginitive person and don't feel the need for a supplement handling either good or evil. Part of the problem is that I generally don't find much use for other peoples fluff. I buy books for the crunchy parts, and I can't imagine that there is enough undetailed evil that needs crunchy rules. Do we really need crunch about slavery? If we need fluff about slavery, surely we would be better in a library reading mature historical references instead of brief surveys written for the least common denominator? Do we really need crunchy rules for various perversions? Don't we already have enough rules for murder? Does anyone feel like we need rules for rape? I already feel I can handle crunchy rules for addictions, torture, sacrifices (good OR evil ones), and most anything that it would be reasonable for book to cover about the acts of evil. And if I don't have rules to cover it, I probably don't want to read about it - least of all in an 'entertainment' book like an RPG text. What could BovD pausibly offer me? The whole thing sounds substanceless and nothing I've heard convinces me otherwise. It's not like I don't already know what evil is, and if I didn't, why would I really want to?
No one has ever accused me of running immature games, but the idea of a whole book devoted to things which are presumably more vile and graphic than anything I've felt the need to cover in my 20 years of gaming kinda sickens me. Just what are those things uncovered that we need to cover?
Conversely what could BoED offer me? It's not like I don't have good guys in the campaign as well as villains already.
Until I hear about something I've overlooked or wouldn't have thought of, or hear about a mechanic better than those I use or material I'm ignorant of, why should I be excited about either one?
The assumption is that I should be strongly interested in ANYTHING simply because it deals with some sort of subject matter. Why should I be excited to hear that WotC is going to publish a book on evil? Why should I be excited to hear that WotC is going to publish a book on good? I simply don't have enough informatino to answer the question one way or the other. Maybe I'd be more interested in BoED than in BoVD. Maybe it would be the other way around. I don't know until I know more about them than I do, which is practically nothing despite all the hype and all the threads I've read.
Yet there seems alot of people are celebrating BoVD as a great thing without even knowing its contents or assessing its quality? Why? How?
Part of the problem may be that I'm already a pretty imaginitive person and don't feel the need for a supplement handling either good or evil. Part of the problem is that I generally don't find much use for other peoples fluff. I buy books for the crunchy parts, and I can't imagine that there is enough undetailed evil that needs crunchy rules. Do we really need crunch about slavery? If we need fluff about slavery, surely we would be better in a library reading mature historical references instead of brief surveys written for the least common denominator? Do we really need crunchy rules for various perversions? Don't we already have enough rules for murder? Does anyone feel like we need rules for rape? I already feel I can handle crunchy rules for addictions, torture, sacrifices (good OR evil ones), and most anything that it would be reasonable for book to cover about the acts of evil. And if I don't have rules to cover it, I probably don't want to read about it - least of all in an 'entertainment' book like an RPG text. What could BovD pausibly offer me? The whole thing sounds substanceless and nothing I've heard convinces me otherwise. It's not like I don't already know what evil is, and if I didn't, why would I really want to?
No one has ever accused me of running immature games, but the idea of a whole book devoted to things which are presumably more vile and graphic than anything I've felt the need to cover in my 20 years of gaming kinda sickens me. Just what are those things uncovered that we need to cover?
Conversely what could BoED offer me? It's not like I don't have good guys in the campaign as well as villains already.
Until I hear about something I've overlooked or wouldn't have thought of, or hear about a mechanic better than those I use or material I'm ignorant of, why should I be excited about either one?
I might.
I agree above, on Interventions, Celestial Choirs, Paladin stuff, Miracles, Quests, pre-destined fate, Divine Feats, and such. However, I would like a few Different things, aswell:
Speciality priests. Not Prestige classes, because it takes forever to get into them, as well as a spesific kind of tooling Just to get into them, but ways to tailor your cleric FURTHER to represent more about their god. Domains, yes, good start. But, they should get More variety, then just the armor-wearing spell casting clergydude. Note, that this could be a way to more balance the cleric: Sacrificing good things (Like the inabilty to cast battle spells for this, or sacrificing armor proficency for this, etc) so they Are more like their deity.
Other then Divine good. We get the point: Cleric and Paladins are good and holy and bla bla bla. But there also needs to be info on how to work Good with other classes, and NOT just focus on the Divine portion. C'mon, let's see some stuff for Good Rogues, Spellcasters, and Fighters. Even good Barbarians (WAAAY too many CN barbarians).
Organizations that are well detailed, and not just bland ol' undead slaying guilds, or paladin orders. I want to see something like the Harpers. Something where good people work descreetly, and stuff, to work good. Not just 'There's evil! Let's smite it!'. Some Chaotic Good, and Neutral good representations, and organizations. Not just Awful good.
A good, well working example of ALL the aligments, showing outlooks, character actions, and thus thus, Indeptly.
Ways to do Good monsters of often Evil races, and how to incorperate them effectively.
And, I don't think it should be a double-book. That means both sides would either have less material then a product by itself, and even so, it'd be THICK! No thank you.
I agree above, on Interventions, Celestial Choirs, Paladin stuff, Miracles, Quests, pre-destined fate, Divine Feats, and such. However, I would like a few Different things, aswell:
Speciality priests. Not Prestige classes, because it takes forever to get into them, as well as a spesific kind of tooling Just to get into them, but ways to tailor your cleric FURTHER to represent more about their god. Domains, yes, good start. But, they should get More variety, then just the armor-wearing spell casting clergydude. Note, that this could be a way to more balance the cleric: Sacrificing good things (Like the inabilty to cast battle spells for this, or sacrificing armor proficency for this, etc) so they Are more like their deity.
Other then Divine good. We get the point: Cleric and Paladins are good and holy and bla bla bla. But there also needs to be info on how to work Good with other classes, and NOT just focus on the Divine portion. C'mon, let's see some stuff for Good Rogues, Spellcasters, and Fighters. Even good Barbarians (WAAAY too many CN barbarians).
Organizations that are well detailed, and not just bland ol' undead slaying guilds, or paladin orders. I want to see something like the Harpers. Something where good people work descreetly, and stuff, to work good. Not just 'There's evil! Let's smite it!'. Some Chaotic Good, and Neutral good representations, and organizations. Not just Awful good.
A good, well working example of ALL the aligments, showing outlooks, character actions, and thus thus, Indeptly.
Ways to do Good monsters of often Evil races, and how to incorperate them effectively.
And, I don't think it should be a double-book. That means both sides would either have less material then a product by itself, and even so, it'd be THICK! No thank you.
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Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
I think the reason I'm less inclinded to such a book is that, heroes are easy. Villians are hard. But even so I do think if a book of exalted deeds read like Book of the Righteous and perhaps dealt with heoric stuff for paladins, clerics, goodly aligned nature lovers, these kind of things MIGHT be inclinded to be used by me and others.
The ONLY reason I'm getting BoVD is for Demon Princes and Arch Devils. That's it.
The ONLY reason I'm getting BoVD is for Demon Princes and Arch Devils. That's it.
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Enkhidu said:
My response is the same as BoVD- it depends on what is in the book.
I weigh each book on its merits/flaws and its ability to impact my game- not on its subject matter.
FD
Furn_Darkside
First Post
Nightfall said:
I have the exact opposite reaction- villians are easy to make: their motivations and means are not a puzzle, and are sadly a bit too common place.
What makes a hero, on the other hand, intrigues me- what leads a person to stand up to the wicked with no care of their own sacrifice or cost?
If being a hero was easy, then we would have more of them in the world.
FD
drnuncheon
Explorer
Celebrim said:
I am excited about the next Steven Brust, Terry Pratchett, or Tim Powers novel without knowing its contents, because I am familiar with the authors and have an expectation of the quality of the work based on their past performance.
I am excited about the BoVD without knowing its contents, because I am familiar with the author and have an expectation of the quality of the work based on his past performance.
There, that was simple.
J
I would most definately buy a Book of Exalted Deeds, or would it be called Book of Sappy Goodness? 
I think the topic of good and evil is an interesting one that would be better explained in a book like that for DnD. For too long, at least in the gaming groups I have played in, if something was evil (ie evil alignment) it was to be killed and if it was good (good alignment) we need to let it live no matter what the cost.
This is why I like the world of Scarred Lands, one can see an evil cleric work with a good cleric and their was justification for it. I like the fact just because you are picked up as evil doesn't mean that you are evil all the time.. Just my two cents
I think the topic of good and evil is an interesting one that would be better explained in a book like that for DnD. For too long, at least in the gaming groups I have played in, if something was evil (ie evil alignment) it was to be killed and if it was good (good alignment) we need to let it live no matter what the cost.
This is why I like the world of Scarred Lands, one can see an evil cleric work with a good cleric and their was justification for it. I like the fact just because you are picked up as evil doesn't mean that you are evil all the time.. Just my two cents
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
I would be very interested in a Book of Exalted Deeds.
As long as it dealt with heroism and good in a game rather than simply new sets of feats and good creatures to kill the bad guys. (Not that those shouldn't be present but rather that those shouldn't dominate the book).
Evil is easy to create on my own. Even vile evil. First because, unlike good it's all basically the same. (Not that all villains are the same--I recognize perfectly well that there are differences between Sauron, Lord Soth, Gollum, and Kitiara to raid from several well known books. However evil is all essentially deviation from one of the standards of good. There are only about ten ways to break the commandments. There are millions of ways to keep them. How much difference is there really between the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe, Pol Pot, the Romans, that southern California creep, Charles Manson, the Aztec sacrifices, and the worship of Molech? Not much really. How much difference the between the good embodied by St. Augustine, St. Boniface, and St. Francis? How about between Jesus, Socrates, Confucius, and Bhudda?)
Plus it's very easy to rip evil from the headlines of the news and current events. Try to do that with good and heroism. Other than the police and firement of 9/11, you won't come up with much.
As long as it dealt with heroism and good in a game rather than simply new sets of feats and good creatures to kill the bad guys. (Not that those shouldn't be present but rather that those shouldn't dominate the book).
Evil is easy to create on my own. Even vile evil. First because, unlike good it's all basically the same. (Not that all villains are the same--I recognize perfectly well that there are differences between Sauron, Lord Soth, Gollum, and Kitiara to raid from several well known books. However evil is all essentially deviation from one of the standards of good. There are only about ten ways to break the commandments. There are millions of ways to keep them. How much difference is there really between the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Mugabe, Pol Pot, the Romans, that southern California creep, Charles Manson, the Aztec sacrifices, and the worship of Molech? Not much really. How much difference the between the good embodied by St. Augustine, St. Boniface, and St. Francis? How about between Jesus, Socrates, Confucius, and Bhudda?)
Plus it's very easy to rip evil from the headlines of the news and current events. Try to do that with good and heroism. Other than the police and firement of 9/11, you won't come up with much.
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