Would you give XP for this?

[Darkness]

Re: Re

I wouldn't for the Holy Smite because he did nothing to survive this trap save have a good alignment as in the spell was not directed nor was it meant to stop a Paladin or other good character in any way. I dont' even know why a person would set up a magic trap with Holy Smite to go off if good characters come in contact with it. Seems kind of strange to me.

I would for the other two traps because were it not for his class abilities, he would have been affected. Though it does not say it specifcally, I believe that an effect still attempts to affect the person involved. For example, when the contagion goes off, I see the disease as still attacking the Paladin, but due to the power given unto him by his god, the disease simply dies before affecting the Paladin.

The spell still has an effect, but does not affect the Paladin.

I think that's my take on this issue as well.

 

[Pielorinho]

XP is usually calculated by CR. CRs are adjusted depending on circumstances. An encounter with no hazard of failure, no risk, no danger, has to be effectively CR 0. There's no challenge to rate.

Actually, this is incorrect, and this misunderstanding may be the root of the problem. CR is NOT adjusted based on circumstances -- EL is. And take a look at the passages I quoted from the DMG: EL is adjusted not based on the party's features, but rather on the features of the encounter itself (e.g., a shocker lizard + a shambling mound have a greater EL than you'd normally calculate for the two, based on the synergy of their abilities -- if you sicced the combination on a druid with plant defiance, you wouldn't adjust the EL downward).

I think the DMG is pretty straightforward on this. Take a look at page 167.

Daniel

 

[Nellisir]

If you don't think that [gaining a level]is expending resources

He had already spent XP he was rewarded, for previous actions, on achieving that paladin level and the attendent powers.

He didn't lose the use of a level, he didn't lose hit points, he didn't lose the use of a restricted use spell, spell-like ability, or other special power. He was in as much danger there as he was walking down the street outside his house. He would be in -more- danger from a 1 hp kobold with a rock than he was from those traps.

I am glad I am with the group I am and have no one with such a view in my group.

Good for you. I've made it pretty clear the paladin example here is a rare case, and in most other cases, everyone gets XP. Trust me, no one in my group complains about advancing too slow.

Keep in mind, I think the Dragon should get XP. I don?t see the difference between the half-dragon and the paladin earning XP. They're both immune to the traps.

The half-dragon can lose his entire adventuring party. That's the threat to the half-dragon. If the paladin had companions (which he doesn't), he'd get XP for encountering the contagion, holy smite, and cause fear traps.

Cheers
Nell.

"An encounter so easy that it uses up none or almost none of the PCs' resources shouldn't result in any XP award at all...."
DMG, pg. 167.

 

[Nellisir]

Actually, this is incorrect, and this misunderstanding may be the root of the problem. CR is NOT adjusted based on circumstances -- EL is.

True, though I haven't found anything about what to do when the EL is effectively 0. If a paladin encounters a irrevocably bound, tied, gagged, helpless CR20 creature only harmed by 5th level paladins, and the paladin (who happens to be 5th level) stabs it to death, does he get the XP for a CR 20 creature? The encounter is significantly less difficult than half of a EL 20 encounter (at which, according to the DMG 167, 1/2 XP is awarded, and the EL is downgraded by 2, making it a EL18 encounter, and worth 1/2 a buttload of XP).

Never mind. Ignore that. It's a stupid example. I don't even want to get into it.

So in our situation:
1) The PC survived the damage dealt by the trap; it was discovered (I assume the PC realized the trap went off, as I stated in a previous post), and it was bypassed. The PC gets XP.
2) The PCs were definitely worn down from prior encounters: most of them were dead. Had the trap been much tougher because most of them were dead, you shouldn't grant higher awards -- you should just the encounter on its own merits. In this case, however, the encounter is much easier because most of them were dead. Again, you should judge the encounter on its own merits.

#1 doesn't convince me...the paladin just had no chance of taking damage from the trap.

#2 is thought-provoking. I don't wholly agree with it, but it's compelling. In most cases, it'd be enough. But the paladin example is pretty far out on the curve, IMO.

I think the DMG is pretty straightforward on this. Take a look at page 167.

What, this? ;-)
"An encounter so easy that it uses up none or almost none of the PCs' resources shouldn't result in any XP award at all...."

The paladin used up none of his available resources. It was a non-encounter by the time he got to it.

Cheers,
Nell.

Who shan't post on this thread again.

 

[hammymchamham]

"An encounter so easy that it uses up none or almost none of the PCs' resources shouldn't result in any XP award at all...."
DMG, pg. 167.

yes, as I said, the Paladin is using resource, the Paladins code, and the Paladins deity. Both are resources he used to overcome the outcome, and thus should earn XP.

 

[RigaMortus]

yes, as I said, the Paladin is using resource, the Paladins code, and the Paladins deity. Both are resources he used to overcome the outcome, and thus should earn XP.

A resource is something you expend. Does this mean, after the trap encounter, the Paladin doesn't need to follow his code of conduct or worship his diety anymore? Is his "good alignment" expended? So if he runs into another Holy Smite trap it will now affect him? Is his Fear protection now expended, so now he can be feared? As you suggested, all those resources were expended during the trap encounter, right?

 

[RigaMortus]

Presumably those traps are there for a reason. The fact the paladin is "lucky" enough to have the exact correct immunities is not sufficient reason to shortchange him xp. He deserves as much xp as would an other PC in the same circumstances.

Then shouldn't the Paladin get exp for all the other traps that were never encountered, as well as all the monsters in the dungeon that were never encountered? I mean, he was "lucky" enough to get through the dungeon without having to set off every trap and fight through every room, why should he be penalized, right? He deserves just as much exp as another PC who adventured through every encounter in the dungeon.

 

[Zerovoid]

I definately think the Paladin deserves experience. He overcame the trap by using his class abilities. A rogue would have overcome the trap by disarming it. A barbarian could have overcome the trap by having a ton of hit points and just staggering through it.

As other's have pointed out, you should judge the difficulty of an action based on a generic player character, not the specific one that is present. A tied and bound CR 20 creature poses no threat to anyone. The traps described are threatening in the general case, even though they are not threatening to the paladin.

OK, here is another question for those people who think the Paladin gets no xp:

Lets say the paladin was with a rogue, cleric, and wizard. The rogue is dead, but the cleric and wizard are alive at the time the trap is encountered. Since they have no rogue, they don't know a trap is present, and are all hit by it at the same time. BOOM The paladin is immune to the trap, but the other characters take damage. The party expended resources to overcome an obstacle, so they get xp, presumably including the paladin. After all, another person mentioned that an immune party member still gets xp in other situations, because they risk losing needed party members.

If a whole fricken party gets xp for getting hit by this lame trap, how can the same paladin, walking down the same cooridor, without his buddies, get no xp?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Then shouldn't the Paladin get exp for all the other traps that were never encountered, as well as all the monsters in the dungeon that were never encountered? I mean, he was "lucky" enough to get through the dungeon without having to set off every trap and fight through every room, why should he be penalized, right? He deserves just as much exp as another PC who adventured through every encounter in the dungeon.

No. He never saw them, and he hadn't a chance to learn from it.

The trap that didn't affect him may still show him how it was triggered, thus making him mor weary of the trap (manifesting in XP, which leads to level-up, which leads to better saves).

A monster that couldn't hurt him (lets say a druid/barbarian with immunity to poison and damage reduction meets a weak bugger with poisoned claws that deal 1d3-1 damage plus poison. Or something) will still let the character see their behavior, some "tactics" they use, and so on. This leads to a better understanding of that creature, and to creatures similar to it (manifesting in XP, which leads to level-up, which leads to higher BAB)

Having never even encoutered that stuff, he won't learn from it, won't gain experience.

 

[hammymchamham]

A resource is something you expend. Does this mean, after the trap encounter, the Paladin doesn't need to follow his code of conduct or worship his diety anymore? Is his "good alignment" expended? So if he runs into another Holy Smite trap it will now affect him? Is his Fear protection now expended, so now he can be feared? As you suggested, all those resources were expended during the trap encounter, right?

Since the Paladin encounter the trap, he would earn XP in the first place. Someone else thinks it takes expending resources. I would say that the paladins actions up to the trap are expending resources. Since those resources gained him the abilities he has, he survived the traps. Had he not been expending the resources, he would have been delt some damage by those traps he encountered. The only offical rules about traps not earning XP is "A trap never discovered or never bypassed was not encountered (and hence grants no XP award). The Paladin did encounter the traps.

And you're just being silly. The Paladin does need to expend resources after surviving the trap. The damage won't sneak up on him. If a barbarian is dealt damage, and uses a cure light wounds potion, he doesn't have to use a cure lights potion ever again. IF a Cleric heals a comrade, does it mean he can never heal? No its silly. Just as you are being. If a fighter swings his sword at a monster and kills it in one plow he will get XP (assuming the CR was high enough). He didn't expened the use of his sword, he can still use it. He used the resorce of the sword, but its still available.