Dark Eternal
First Post
Wormwood said:
[Off-topic]
Leave my dwarves alone.
They're fine just the way they are.
(Grumbling, "Blasted humans, always meddling where they're not wanted...")
[/Off-topic]
Last edited:
Would you Regularly play a Half-Elf if they get tweaked in 3.5?
- Thread starter Merlion
- Start date
[Off-topic]
Leave my dwarves alone.
They're fine just the way they are.
(Grumbling, "Blasted humans, always meddling where they're not wanted...")
[/Off-topic]
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
I've seen quite a few people disparaging favored class any. Some seem to think it's unnecessary if the PC doesn't go beyond 2 classes. Others think it's unnecessary if the PC has access to prestige classes. Still others seem to think that very few PCs go beyond 2 classes. IME, those are all mistakes.
Consider the following situations--none of which seems inconceivable and several of which I've actually seen in games (and, by the way, balance of power is what's being discussed here at the moment so of course my description is limited in that way.)
Barbarian/bard on the road to Arcane Archer. If the character is an elf of any kind, she'll take an XP hit (unless she keeps the levels even which she doesn't want to do). Not so for the half-elf. Barbarian 1/Bard 7 is a perfectly reasonable path to arcane archer. (So is Bbn 1/Ftr 2/Brd 4)
Fighter/Sorceror on the way to Arcane Archer or bladesinger. Elves: 20% xp penalty for Ftr 5/Sor 2. Half-elves need not worry; heck half-elves can be Ftr 4/Rgr 1/Pal 1/Sor1 and still not take xp penalties).
Fighter/Rogue/Wizard or sorceror: The elf can only either keep fighter and rogue even or make wizard the primary class in this mix without taking an xp hit. Half-elves, OTOH, can be Ftr 2/Rog6/Wiz 2 without taking any penalties. Humans can do this too though.
Rgr/Rog/Paladin on the Consecrated Harrier path with favored enemy: human. Humans--can't have their own race as a favored enemy and still be good. Elves would have to keep all three classes within one level of each other--no Rgr 1/Rog 3/Pal 2 for them. Half-elves have no problems.
Are those somewhat unusual cases? You bet. Individually, none of those character concept (one could argue that a character concept is a role-playing rather than a mechanical term but concepts ought to be fitted into classes and consequently the mechanics DO therefore limit which concepts are viable)/plans/paths are common enough to register on the radar screen of balance. As a whole, however, unusual combinations like these do add up to a fairly significant list of things you can't do with elves or humans but can with half-elves.
Consider the following situations--none of which seems inconceivable and several of which I've actually seen in games (and, by the way, balance of power is what's being discussed here at the moment so of course my description is limited in that way.)
Barbarian/bard on the road to Arcane Archer. If the character is an elf of any kind, she'll take an XP hit (unless she keeps the levels even which she doesn't want to do). Not so for the half-elf. Barbarian 1/Bard 7 is a perfectly reasonable path to arcane archer. (So is Bbn 1/Ftr 2/Brd 4)
Fighter/Sorceror on the way to Arcane Archer or bladesinger. Elves: 20% xp penalty for Ftr 5/Sor 2. Half-elves need not worry; heck half-elves can be Ftr 4/Rgr 1/Pal 1/Sor1 and still not take xp penalties).
Fighter/Rogue/Wizard or sorceror: The elf can only either keep fighter and rogue even or make wizard the primary class in this mix without taking an xp hit. Half-elves, OTOH, can be Ftr 2/Rog6/Wiz 2 without taking any penalties. Humans can do this too though.
Rgr/Rog/Paladin on the Consecrated Harrier path with favored enemy: human. Humans--can't have their own race as a favored enemy and still be good. Elves would have to keep all three classes within one level of each other--no Rgr 1/Rog 3/Pal 2 for them. Half-elves have no problems.
Are those somewhat unusual cases? You bet. Individually, none of those character concept (one could argue that a character concept is a role-playing rather than a mechanical term but concepts ought to be fitted into classes and consequently the mechanics DO therefore limit which concepts are viable)/plans/paths are common enough to register on the radar screen of balance. As a whole, however, unusual combinations like these do add up to a fairly significant list of things you can't do with elves or humans but can with half-elves.
I have no problem with a race with disadvantages, I'd just like something that keeps him from being a meatpuppet.
LGodamus
First Post
I put NO..basically if I were going to play one I would do it now. The numbers are not as important as the character..besides if I need to I can powergame the heck out of even sub optimal choices. The angsty I dont fit in anywhere schtick of H_E's just is not right to my taste.....too much like V:tm for me.
I enjoy the flavor and RP potential for half-elves, and have played them satisfactorily as-is.
But I do think that mechanically, they're a little underwhelming as a "mix" of elf and human. I think their elven side is done well, but their human blood is poorly represented. Multiclass:any just doesn't pull a lot of weight in a system with Prestige Classes galore (many of which are just souped-up extensions of standard classes -- hello Shadowdancer, you super-rogue, you?), the option of evenly balancing non-Prestiges, and house rules nixing favored classes as outdated and too much hassle... Also, the favored class represents the versatility of the human blood fine, but the lack of either a skill bonus or a feat bonus calls into question (from a mechanics echo flavor/definition standpoint) how a half-elf learns fast enough to cram that versatility into his short life span.
Basically, WotC should realize that many people just toss the multiclassing penalties (and favored classes along with it) and provide an alternative set of human and half elf bonuses to go with such house rules. Say, humans get an extra skill point per level and bonus feats at level 1, 8, and 15, half-elves get elven blood and a bonus feat at first level and a skill point every other level.
But I do think that mechanically, they're a little underwhelming as a "mix" of elf and human. I think their elven side is done well, but their human blood is poorly represented. Multiclass:any just doesn't pull a lot of weight in a system with Prestige Classes galore (many of which are just souped-up extensions of standard classes -- hello Shadowdancer, you super-rogue, you?), the option of evenly balancing non-Prestiges, and house rules nixing favored classes as outdated and too much hassle... Also, the favored class represents the versatility of the human blood fine, but the lack of either a skill bonus or a feat bonus calls into question (from a mechanics echo flavor/definition standpoint) how a half-elf learns fast enough to cram that versatility into his short life span.
Basically, WotC should realize that many people just toss the multiclassing penalties (and favored classes along with it) and provide an alternative set of human and half elf bonuses to go with such house rules. Say, humans get an extra skill point per level and bonus feats at level 1, 8, and 15, half-elves get elven blood and a bonus feat at first level and a skill point every other level.
IMO, the two most important abilities of the half-elf are these:
* Lowlight vision
* No Con penalty
Half-elves make really good rangers, druids and ranger/rogues. At night and outdoors they are excellent.
Underground, lowlight vision, whilst somewhat inferior to darkvision, is still crucial. I was recently running a group of four humans and two halflings through a dungeon... they were so much in trouble. A bulleye lantern and lowlight vision gives you a 120' sight range.
The lack of a Con penalty (compared to the elf) means they're better in melee and as combat casters.
They make better multi-class sorcerers than the elf as well.
That said, most people want to specialise more than the half-elf allows. The half-elf is a niche race, but this isn't a bad thing - any more than the half-orc is undesirable to play.
Cheers!
* Lowlight vision
* No Con penalty
Half-elves make really good rangers, druids and ranger/rogues. At night and outdoors they are excellent.
Underground, lowlight vision, whilst somewhat inferior to darkvision, is still crucial. I was recently running a group of four humans and two halflings through a dungeon... they were so much in trouble. A bulleye lantern and lowlight vision gives you a 120' sight range.
The lack of a Con penalty (compared to the elf) means they're better in melee and as combat casters.
They make better multi-class sorcerers than the elf as well.That said, most people want to specialise more than the half-elf allows. The half-elf is a niche race, but this isn't a bad thing - any more than the half-orc is undesirable to play.
Cheers!
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