Read the comparisons and weigh in here:
How Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is like a board game | play board games
How Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is like a board game | play board games
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www.play-board-games.com blogs about How DnD 4th Edition is like a board game
- Thread starter jcrog
- Start date
Yeah I think it is a two way street. It is not meant to be a bad thing either. I DM a 4e game and love board games. I had just never thought of any RPG being like a board game til my friend brought it up. And for some reason 4e does seem more "board-gamey" to me. Again this is not an insult...just a feeling I have about it.
abyssaldeath
First Post
Agree'd. I've been playing DnD with miniatures so long, since 2e, that when people were complaining about having to use miniatures for 4e I was confused. I couldn't understand how you played without them.
ExploderWizard
Hero
I played without them for 8 years. Once I got interested in collecting and painting minis then I started wanting to play with my toys during the game. The rules being used didn't matter but it was 1E AD&D at the time.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
Its back to the roots, actually...
i liked a little less grid dependence, but the balance this board game like setup creates has it´s merits!
i liked a little less grid dependence, but the balance this board game like setup creates has it´s merits!
Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
I agree with the bloggers comparisons. I disagree with his conclusion. All editions of D&D I have played have shared the same similarities with boardgames that he compares with 4E. The one exception is miniatures and the grid. My group did not start using miniatures and a grid, but later (1E) found that using them helped settle some disputes. Especially when a trap was triggered.
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Wow, I expected massive nerdrage at just the sight of the thread title. Have we reached peace at last? *Exchanges swords to ploughshares*
Anyway, the 4e devs explicitly said they took Eurogames as inspiration. It is nice for newbies who immediately knows what to do during combat based on their powers and kick ass while doing it, which leads to greater enjoyment.
Anyway, the 4e devs explicitly said they took Eurogames as inspiration. It is nice for newbies who immediately knows what to do during combat based on their powers and kick ass while doing it, which leads to greater enjoyment.
Silverblade The Ench
First Post
I've played D&D from the beginning with miniatures, plastic soldiers iirc for first go (1st ed).
I made a grid board from two pieces of plywood (joined with brass hinges) with green flock glued to it (for grass)
(hey, they 80s were rough, I couldn't afford the books at first had to surreptously copy rules from the 1st ed PHB/DMG/MM down onto paper in the big toy store that had them)
so I'm used to always using minis, I wouldn't want NOT to use 'em.
therefore, folk comparing 4th ed to a board game I find ridiculous.
I adore how the game has changed so it's no longer "stand toe to toe and play whack a rat"...that annoyed the HELL out of me. Nobody ever fights like that in RL. Position, bull rushes, throws etc are all vital.
So as DM I would describe such, but I couldn't actually do them on the table (as there were no rules for such etc)
Note I don't hate 1st or 2nd ed, I loved them, and still have much fondess for 'em
D&D has two aspects: Roleplaying, and combat. While the former is very subjective, the latter does need more tight rules.
2nd ed added in some rules for social interactions, but very poorly, 3rd ed improved it HUGELY but the skill system was too cumbersome and 4th ed feels better to me (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Insight, that works a treat. Also possible knowledge skills, Stealth).
As time has went on, liek any systems, flaws and solutions, plus new ideas, come up.
If 4th ed pinched ideas from video games and board games...so what? They pinched from D&D, lol.
D&D Encounters and delves I can see are great ways to have relaxed play, because getting a group together nowadays is hard. I'm not keen on the non-RP way they push the game though but can understand why, as RP relies on good players/DM, and THAT IS NEVER ASSURED TO BE THE CASE!
emphasis is required there. It's very important.
If you go to a chess tournament, you know the rules will be adhered to strictly, thus allowing fairness.
But how many DM's are rookies, don't realize things, or are plain rotten?
Yeah I'm sure you all know one...hehe
So D&D needs clear rules whether some folk like it or not.
hey I didn't understand the spell memorization system for months after we started! there was nobody to explain it to, no internet, not even Dragon magazine in the "cultural sceptic tank" I live in
Compare the rules etc from 1st, to 4th ed on the grid map itself.
Was facing introduced in 2nd ed? cna't recall (hey was long time ago)
1st ed used "Inches" for all range/movement, which is really not very sensible..."A dragon flies 12 inches..." ahem
one day it should be all metric (2 metre, 6' square?) so it's universally clear.
better rules on the table also mean easier computer conversion and this is VITAL for D&D to SURVIVE. Sorry folk who really want to pull the covers over their ears and ignore reality
but for D&D to live on, it needs new players, which means youngsters, which means *computer* versions. It is absolutely essential.
go compare Pool of Radiance, to Temple of elemental Evil on the PC.
I loved both. TOEE (when patched) is a fantastic game.
D&D has been badly let dow in last 10 years by not having enough mainstream computer presence, except the Neverwinter Nights games.
I suspect/hope that recent stuff with Atari vs HASBRo is about yanking the licence off that deadbeat, and creating something with the appeal of WoW, or Modern Warfare...so that 60 years form now, there will be a huge fan base still loving this game, or it will be *DEAD* when we pass on.
Sorry for dragging it off topic, but that was part of thread I had on "grognard good/grognard bad".
"Old school" is cool, and hey such folk are vital in any genre as a back bone
but you need new blood. And things change. I want D&D to be here for generations to come, not just me.
So...D&D as effcient on the game board, also lets them make conversions like the Ravenloft board game, which I hope attracts more players, not just cheers us aging fogeys up
I made a grid board from two pieces of plywood (joined with brass hinges) with green flock glued to it (for grass)
(hey, they 80s were rough, I couldn't afford the books at first had to surreptously copy rules from the 1st ed PHB/DMG/MM down onto paper in the big toy store that had them)
so I'm used to always using minis, I wouldn't want NOT to use 'em.
therefore, folk comparing 4th ed to a board game I find ridiculous.
I adore how the game has changed so it's no longer "stand toe to toe and play whack a rat"...that annoyed the HELL out of me. Nobody ever fights like that in RL. Position, bull rushes, throws etc are all vital.
So as DM I would describe such, but I couldn't actually do them on the table (as there were no rules for such etc)
Note I don't hate 1st or 2nd ed, I loved them, and still have much fondess for 'em
D&D has two aspects: Roleplaying, and combat. While the former is very subjective, the latter does need more tight rules.
2nd ed added in some rules for social interactions, but very poorly, 3rd ed improved it HUGELY but the skill system was too cumbersome and 4th ed feels better to me (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Insight, that works a treat. Also possible knowledge skills, Stealth).
As time has went on, liek any systems, flaws and solutions, plus new ideas, come up.
If 4th ed pinched ideas from video games and board games...so what? They pinched from D&D, lol.
D&D Encounters and delves I can see are great ways to have relaxed play, because getting a group together nowadays is hard. I'm not keen on the non-RP way they push the game though but can understand why, as RP relies on good players/DM, and THAT IS NEVER ASSURED TO BE THE CASE!
emphasis is required there. It's very important.
If you go to a chess tournament, you know the rules will be adhered to strictly, thus allowing fairness.
But how many DM's are rookies, don't realize things, or are plain rotten?
Yeah I'm sure you all know one...hehe
So D&D needs clear rules whether some folk like it or not.
hey I didn't understand the spell memorization system for months after we started! there was nobody to explain it to, no internet, not even Dragon magazine in the "cultural sceptic tank" I live in
Compare the rules etc from 1st, to 4th ed on the grid map itself.
Was facing introduced in 2nd ed? cna't recall (hey was long time ago
)1st ed used "Inches" for all range/movement, which is really not very sensible..."A dragon flies 12 inches..." ahem
one day it should be all metric (2 metre, 6' square?) so it's universally clear.
better rules on the table also mean easier computer conversion and this is VITAL for D&D to SURVIVE. Sorry folk who really want to pull the covers over their ears and ignore reality
but for D&D to live on, it needs new players, which means youngsters, which means *computer* versions. It is absolutely essential.
go compare Pool of Radiance, to Temple of elemental Evil on the PC.
I loved both. TOEE (when patched) is a fantastic game.
D&D has been badly let dow in last 10 years by not having enough mainstream computer presence, except the Neverwinter Nights games.
I suspect/hope that recent stuff with Atari vs HASBRo is about yanking the licence off that deadbeat, and creating something with the appeal of WoW, or Modern Warfare...so that 60 years form now, there will be a huge fan base still loving this game, or it will be *DEAD* when we pass on.
Sorry for dragging it off topic, but that was part of thread I had on "grognard good/grognard bad".
"Old school" is cool, and hey such folk are vital in any genre as a back bone
but you need new blood. And things change. I want D&D to be here for generations to come, not just me.
So...D&D as effcient on the game board, also lets them make conversions like the Ravenloft board game, which I hope attracts more players, not just cheers us aging fogeys up
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