[XPH] Psion versus Wizard/Sorcerer

[Zhure]

Yeah, seems like a sound tactic when facing a psion capable of doing this...

Bye
Thanee

Thanks. It's what most intelligent people would do when facing such a threat. A fifty-fifty miss chance (or less if I cast true strike) means a low-level sorcerer with a crossbow can mess up the medusa pretty quickly.

Greg

 

[Zhure]

Attached

(I forgot the summoned monster attachment.)

 

[two]

Well, I'm afraid, that's not going to happen. We've had enough with the updated 3.0 psion in our campaigns (and that's not purely my opinion).

Bye
Thanee

Ah...

Now we are getting somewhere, after 10 pages or so.

Now, Thanee, please, if you would, recline upon this fainting couch. Prop your head up on this soft red pillow. Are you too warm? Too cold? No? Good. Just right. Now, take a deep breath. Exhale. Inhale. There. Perfect. Now --

Tell us of this updated 3.0 psion --

The one that seems to have irritated not only yourself but the party in general --

If you would?

 

[kitoy]

Ah...

Now we are getting somewhere, after 10 pages or so.

Now, Thanee, please, if you would, recline upon this fainting couch. Prop your head up on this soft red pillow. Are you too warm? Too cold? No? Good. Just right. Now, take a deep breath. Exhale. Inhale. There. Perfect. Now --

Tell us of this updated 3.0 psion --

The one that seems to have irritated not only yourself but the party in general --

If you would?

Yes, Thanee, have you converted a psion converted from 3.0 to 3.5 in your campaign? Has the character been in an actual game yet? How did it go? If you're talking from in-game experience, your arguments would have a lot more weight. At least for me personally.

 

[two]

So you do have a psion converted from 3.0 to 3.5 in your campaign? Has the character been in an actual game yet? How did it go? If you're talking from in-game experience, your arguments would have a lot more weight. At least for me personally.

I wasn't aware I was making an argument.

I've never played a psion, never seen one played, never read any psionic rules, never had much interest in them.

My comments were purely in response to the thread itself, not the rules debate, except so far as the debate related to some bad experience somebody apparantly had with a converted Psion, in which I felt some curiosity.

 

[kitoy]

I wasn't aware I was making an argument.

I've never played a psion, never seen one played, never read any psionic rules, never had much interest in them.

My comments were purely in response to the thread itself, not the rules debate, except so far as the debate related to some bad experience somebody apparantly had with a converted Psion, in which I felt some curiosity.

Sorry, I got excited, I wasn't directing my comments towards you, I was asking Thanee. Actually, if anyone has any experience with a Psion in actual play, I would like to hear from them.

 

[James McMurray]

Do you think psion players will pick up many feats, which require the expenditure of the focus? I don't. That's what I basically meant there. It just makes people stay away from those feats, which IMHO is a bad thing as it restricts character variability.

The primary focus expenders are metapsi feats. Given that until you are high level it is nearly impossible to apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell, the same should hold true for metapsi. The focus requirement causes that. IMO psions are just as likely to pick up multiple metapsi feats as sorcerers ar to pick up metamagic feats. In other words, they'll ge the ones they want to be able to use.

I'm listening but hear nothing. The primary advantage for the 'still' and 'silent' applications of psionics is being able to manifest in a silence field. It's a rare case.

Other advantages include being able to cast undetected by anyone around you, nd being agble to cast while grappled or held. Innate still and silent is definitely a big benfit in the psion's favor. Being able to completely hide a manifestation with a DC 15 check is also a huge plus. Its hard for an enemy to attack the guy that is energy balling them if they don't know who he is.

 

[Psiblade]

I feel that psionic characters are balanced in comparison to wizards. Psionic focus is hard to regain in combat. First, at best regaining focus is a move action. Second, there is no regain focus defensively ability (always generates AoO). The other weakness for psionic characters is that you will run down on power points fast. My character would never throw 216 energy missiles. Instead, psionic character must augment to the max in order to maintain efficency. The evoker that I play with does not ever run out of spells even with his two lesser rods of quickening.

-Psiblade

 

[Thanee]

I'm listening but hear nothing. The primary advantage for the 'still' and 'silent' applications of psionics is being able to manifest in a silence field. It's a rare case.

Uhm... let's see... how about Grapple? Stealth?

But not, as you imply, the four feats. It's similar in function but far weaker.

It's weaker than the hypothetical four feats, but much stronger than nothing!

No, the numbers are identical for both.

Not even close...

You would when facing all those summoned arcanist creatures with fire/cold immunity.

I'd still pick the Energy Missile and do lightning or sonic damage instead.

But it's ok if we ignore the primary advantage of Globe of Invulnerability?

In fact, yes. DC is relevant on every single manifestation. Globe of Invulnerability maybe in 1% of those (if numbers are that high even).

Correct. The psion gets slightly better feats but slightly fewer than a wizard.

Yay!

Ok, I have my list of all summoned monster abilities. (See attached.)

The difference is a lot of summoned creatures are extraplanar and Metamorphic Transfer won't grant those abilities.

Nice list, now make the other? And no I won't do that, I'm not crazy enough to write down the hundreds of abilities you would get access to this way...

Now we're talking about ANOTHER feat for the psion. He can't have both Astral Construct AND Metamorphasis without yet another feat.

Yeah, I have said so quite a few times already, that psions have a weaker power base.

So does Astral Construct.

Uhm... what are we comparing again?

I just stated Astral Construct, because the psion could get that (instead of MT, which would be pretty dumb, really, as MT is like 10 times as powerful), if he wanted, but the comparison is not with AC.

I'll grant that it might be unbalanced, but no one has showed it to be yet in any way.

I did, read the thread again?

Just to remember, it grants access and extremely cheap usage of effects resembling spells (some of higher level). The DC of those even scales infinitely (without augmentation!). And that's just one of many options.

Not being familiar with the spell I can't comment on it, but I'd have to guess it's was either not a full round cast, or of a longer duration than the summon monster spells.

Casting time: 1 action. Basically works like polymorph, except for the above.

The reason why I stated this was, that WotC errataed this 6th level spell, but not the 6th level Summon Monster spell. For a reason.

I'd still far rather face a caster transformed into a Girallon then a fiendish Girallon AND a caster.

Ok. Can't say anything against that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Thanks. It's what most intelligent people would do when facing such a threat. A fifty-fifty miss chance (or less if I cast true strike) means a low-level sorcerer with a crossbow can mess up the medusa pretty quickly.

Well... don't forget, that the "medusa" is still a psion, not just a medusa.

Facing a psion with closed eyes isn't going to be fun. You cannot even listen where he is!

Bye
Thanee