[YAELHT*] What are you going to do with the ELH?
- Thread starter Psion
- Start date
Tratyn Runewind
First Post
Hello!
Well, first I intend to have a little fun and get the feel of the new rules by rebuilding some of the many Epic-level NPCs of one of my favorite campaign settings, Mystara, under the 3e rules. Actually, I'm converting a bunch of NPCs, not just Epic-level ones, but because BD&D (Mystara's original ruleset) provided for mortal play up to 36th character level, many of the prominent characters do happen to be up in the Epic-level power range. 2e Mystara materials sadly dialed back the power of many of these characters to fit the level-20 limit of the 2e core rules, and it'll be nice to see them statted out in all their Epic glory for the current D&D ruleset. The flexible multiclassing rules and other options of 3e will also allow characters to be more closely matched to their backstories.
Stefan Karameikos, for example, is the only Mystaran character with official 3e stats posted at the official Mystara website. He was 20th level in his last known BD&D writeup (PWA2), but was robbed back to 15th level in the 2e Karameikos boxed set. The posted stats on the Mystara site are almost a straight port of the 2e version, and have him at 15th level. Since they were posted not long after the release of the PHB, they also don't take advantage of 3e's new NPC classes - Stefan would almost certainly have levels in the Aristocrat class, given his background. I'd probably evaluate him as Aristocrat 5/Fighter 15, maybe replacing a few Aristocrat and/or Fighter levels with Ranger levels, given his willingness to trade his rich ancestral lands in civilized Thyatis for the chance to forge his own kingdom in the Traladaran wilderness. And the evil wizard Bargle is said to have started out as a petty criminal in the streets of Specularum, not turning to magic until he murdered a young wizard and stole his spellbooks. This would have been mere "fluff" (to borrow terminology from another thread) under the BD&D rules, but can now be given some character-stat "crunchiness" in 3e by giving him a level or two of Rogue early in his career.
And speaking of BD&D/Mystara and the ELH, it's nice to see some echoes of BD&D goodness making their return in that work. The Rod of the Wyrm was orignally a BD&D magic item (appearing in the Companion set, if I remember correctly), and the Neh-Thalggu and the Blackball (now called Umbral Blot) were BD&D creatures. The Neh-Thalggu has been powered up substantially; it was not at all an Epic-level foe before, though Haldemar of Haaken did run into one once (nor did it hang out with Mind Flayers, who didn't exist in BD&D). The Blackball's entry even speaks of the Old Ones, who were the mysterious Elder God uber-immortals of BD&D. (Creatures called "Colossus" also exist in BD&D, though they bear little resemblance to those in the ELH.) Since BD&D and Mystara were geared to support high-level play, it's only natural that elements of them could prove useful in a product like the ELH, and it's nice to see some of the designers remembering this rich legacy and taking advantage of it...
. In 3e I'd probably put her mainly as a Sorceress - her magic seems "natural", and she doesn't seem the scholarly type. In 1e she could also prep and cast Druid spells as Magic-User spells, which fits in nicely with her legendary command over natural elements, so in 3e I'd probably give her some Druid levels as well. Heck, given some of her powers I'd consider making her a Deities and Demigods quasi-deity (Divine Rank 0). Hope this helps churn the old creative thoughts into motion for ya!
Hm, talk of Epic figures from real-world legend has also brought to mind the first thing I thought when I saw the Terrifying Rage feat - "this was made for Cu Chulann". He's an Epic Barbarian if ever there was one, probably with some Fighter levels to represent his combat training on the mysterious isle of the warrior-woman Scathach. I'm sure he'd be fun to stat out, too.
So anyway, those are my initial plans for "Fun with the Epic Level Handbook". Since you asked...
Well, first I intend to have a little fun and get the feel of the new rules by rebuilding some of the many Epic-level NPCs of one of my favorite campaign settings, Mystara, under the 3e rules. Actually, I'm converting a bunch of NPCs, not just Epic-level ones, but because BD&D (Mystara's original ruleset) provided for mortal play up to 36th character level, many of the prominent characters do happen to be up in the Epic-level power range. 2e Mystara materials sadly dialed back the power of many of these characters to fit the level-20 limit of the 2e core rules, and it'll be nice to see them statted out in all their Epic glory for the current D&D ruleset. The flexible multiclassing rules and other options of 3e will also allow characters to be more closely matched to their backstories.
Stefan Karameikos, for example, is the only Mystaran character with official 3e stats posted at the official Mystara website. He was 20th level in his last known BD&D writeup (PWA2), but was robbed back to 15th level in the 2e Karameikos boxed set. The posted stats on the Mystara site are almost a straight port of the 2e version, and have him at 15th level. Since they were posted not long after the release of the PHB, they also don't take advantage of 3e's new NPC classes - Stefan would almost certainly have levels in the Aristocrat class, given his background. I'd probably evaluate him as Aristocrat 5/Fighter 15, maybe replacing a few Aristocrat and/or Fighter levels with Ranger levels, given his willingness to trade his rich ancestral lands in civilized Thyatis for the chance to forge his own kingdom in the Traladaran wilderness. And the evil wizard Bargle is said to have started out as a petty criminal in the streets of Specularum, not turning to magic until he murdered a young wizard and stole his spellbooks. This would have been mere "fluff" (to borrow terminology from another thread) under the BD&D rules, but can now be given some character-stat "crunchiness" in 3e by giving him a level or two of Rogue early in his career.
And speaking of BD&D/Mystara and the ELH, it's nice to see some echoes of BD&D goodness making their return in that work. The Rod of the Wyrm was orignally a BD&D magic item (appearing in the Companion set, if I remember correctly), and the Neh-Thalggu and the Blackball (now called Umbral Blot) were BD&D creatures. The Neh-Thalggu has been powered up substantially; it was not at all an Epic-level foe before, though Haldemar of Haaken did run into one once (nor did it hang out with Mind Flayers, who didn't exist in BD&D). The Blackball's entry even speaks of the Old Ones, who were the mysterious Elder God uber-immortals of BD&D. (Creatures called "Colossus" also exist in BD&D, though they bear little resemblance to those in the ELH.) Since BD&D and Mystara were geared to support high-level play, it's only natural that elements of them could prove useful in a product like the ELH, and it's nice to see some of the designers remembering this rich legacy and taking advantage of it...
This sounds like another fun project. "The Dancing Hut" was one of my favorite old Dragon Magazine modules, about as high-level crazy dangerous as it got until the Bloodstone series came out. My favorite part was the bit about how Baba Yaga never bothered using calling diagrams for her summonings, because the lower-planar creatures all knew her and wouldn't dare to attack her
. In 3e I'd probably put her mainly as a Sorceress - her magic seems "natural", and she doesn't seem the scholarly type. In 1e she could also prep and cast Druid spells as Magic-User spells, which fits in nicely with her legendary command over natural elements, so in 3e I'd probably give her some Druid levels as well. Heck, given some of her powers I'd consider making her a Deities and Demigods quasi-deity (Divine Rank 0). Hope this helps churn the old creative thoughts into motion for ya!Hm, talk of Epic figures from real-world legend has also brought to mind the first thing I thought when I saw the Terrifying Rage feat - "this was made for Cu Chulann". He's an Epic Barbarian if ever there was one, probably with some Fighter levels to represent his combat training on the mysterious isle of the warrior-woman Scathach. I'm sure he'd be fun to stat out, too.
So anyway, those are my initial plans for "Fun with the Epic Level Handbook". Since you asked...
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi Aaron mate!
I have a fantastic link to a Galactus site. But unfortunately the link seems to be down (which is strange since it was working two days ago).
Just in case...
http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/galactus/
Aaron L said:
I have a fantastic link to a Galactus site. But unfortunately the link seems to be down (which is strange since it was working two days ago).
Just in case...
http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/galactus/
The first thing I'm going to do is scale down a couple of the monsters and use them immediately in my game. The PCs are only around 10th level right now, so we're a long way, away. However, the picture of the Gloom and the Worm That Walks is forcing my hand....they're just too wicked looking for me NOT to use them! I'll probably also play around with major NPCs for my campaign and create them using this book...even if they won't really ever come into play in the actual game.
Psion
Adventurer
kreynolds said:Hey!
Heh... he'd hate mine. The PCs in the game I currently run:
Male Elf Ranger 9/Ghostwalker7
Male Elf Monk 16
Male Half-Elf Paladin 16
Female Elf Rogue 16
Male Human Sorcerer 16
Some recent adventures:
Explore an ancient elven city entombed in ice, which fell tragically 1000 years ago to a demon horde.
Protect an elven prince from assassins from the evil empire (they failed, but it wasn't really their fault.)
Anyways...
Last night was game night, and we discussed the ELH a bit. As you can see, my current crop of characters aren't THAT far off from being there. They have one more goal they want to meet before we take a break from that game for a while. Most of them are ready to start new 1st level characters.
What I discussed doing was for future games with these characters, intersperse them over time more. For example, say they make 17th level after they meet their goal (slaying a particular enemy.) After that, set the characters for a while... and next time we run them, it is a year or more in the future, and they are at 18th level. And so on.
In the meantime, we are running the first level game. I have a lot of dangling story arcs the old party never completed. What I am contemplating doing is getting the new party involved in some of the same villains, and as they press on, the plot progresses with those villains. Eventually, we find a juncture where the old characters get called in to intercede.
Edit: Accidentally gave the rogue a sex change.
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Well, having jsut picked up the ELH, I noticed a couple things I can do with it even if I never run an epic game.
1) Design major and minor artifacts. The Epic Magic Items and the effects of the Epic Spells give me a way to quantify and balance artifact-level power. I can have opposing artifacts that balance out each other's power.
2) Make higher-level skill checks and calculate better DCs. Some of the examples are over the top, but a lot of them have handy info.
3) Allow truly heroic acts. I would probably allow a PC to sacrifice themselves to cast an epic spell or use an epic feat - with the understanding that the character is never going to return (under player control, at least).
4) Granting of powers by deities. I'm always scrounging for ideas when a deity wants to reward a follower. An epic feat or spell makes a great gift from your god or goddess.
1) Design major and minor artifacts. The Epic Magic Items and the effects of the Epic Spells give me a way to quantify and balance artifact-level power. I can have opposing artifacts that balance out each other's power.
2) Make higher-level skill checks and calculate better DCs. Some of the examples are over the top, but a lot of them have handy info.
3) Allow truly heroic acts. I would probably allow a PC to sacrifice themselves to cast an epic spell or use an epic feat - with the understanding that the character is never going to return (under player control, at least).
4) Granting of powers by deities. I'm always scrounging for ideas when a deity wants to reward a follower. An epic feat or spell makes a great gift from your god or goddess.
jester47
First Post
Well I plan on advanceing a few things in my world. Namely a few dungeons and a few powerful dragons.
By the time I am done with it I will have Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
BA DA SPASH.
No really, when I get it I will probably use it to allow for the level of high magic I want for certain strongholds and such. I plan on using it for magic that is more permanent and more powerful than what is given in the PH.
I have not had a chance to peruse it so, I will have to wait until it arrives.
A good example is that I wanted a dungeon level that at the frst sign of trouble all the doors would shut and lock.
Aaron.
By the time I am done with it I will have Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
BA DA SPASH.
No really, when I get it I will probably use it to allow for the level of high magic I want for certain strongholds and such. I plan on using it for magic that is more permanent and more powerful than what is given in the PH.
I have not had a chance to peruse it so, I will have to wait until it arrives.
A good example is that I wanted a dungeon level that at the frst sign of trouble all the doors would shut and lock.
Aaron.
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
I haven't gotten it yet, but I'm certainly looking forward to it.
I'm attempting to challenge a bunch of 7-8 PCs of 17th-19th level. Yikes! Even more scarily, I'm trying to do it by adapting a 2e module meant for 14th lvl PCs that involves huge numbers of relatively low-level undead, along with a handful of more powerful leaders and support "troops" (ghoulish umber hulks, undead constructs, and the like.) The ELH is going to give me concrete rules for a lot of things I've just been ballparking, and it's going to do so in time for me to stat up the various villains before the PCs arrive to have harsh words with them.
I expect to get some use out of epic level feats, lots of use out of epic level magic, and a fair amount of use from the monsters and templates.
I'm attempting to challenge a bunch of 7-8 PCs of 17th-19th level. Yikes! Even more scarily, I'm trying to do it by adapting a 2e module meant for 14th lvl PCs that involves huge numbers of relatively low-level undead, along with a handful of more powerful leaders and support "troops" (ghoulish umber hulks, undead constructs, and the like.) The ELH is going to give me concrete rules for a lot of things I've just been ballparking, and it's going to do so in time for me to stat up the various villains before the PCs arrive to have harsh words with them.
I expect to get some use out of epic level feats, lots of use out of epic level magic, and a fair amount of use from the monsters and templates.
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