Actually I posted it for actual critique instead of a diatribe of "it's too powerful" or "it's too stupid" or some other stuff.
Now we have some flesh.
mmu1 said:
I don't know why people post their work and ask for comments when all they're interested in is a validation of their own opinion.
Let's go over what you've done with the class again...
You gave it:
- 6 skill points per level
- A good Will save
- Improved Unarmed Strike and Flurry of Blows
- Access to the Monk unarmed attack progression COMBINED with a fighter's BAB
- Monk bonuses to unarmed damage die size
You took away:
- Two virtual feats
- Spellcasting (which I'm very familiar with, by the way)
There are at least two major issues here:
1. You're giving it a good Will save. That is something
no warrior-type class has, it's their biggest Achilles' heel and a major factor in terms of balance between the classes. No core warrior class should ever have a good Will save, unless they decide to re-write the system.
Kyramus: Granted the will save is factoring in that the Rangers push forward against all odds, I could easily substitute this with iron will and be done with it.
2. You're giving it monk-style unarmed attack progression combined with a fighter's BAB. (in armor, no less) In other words, you're taking the Monk's most important ability (yes, they get a lot of other special abilities, but this is the big one), and giving something just like it, only much better, to another class.
You just don't do that. You don't give a core class a better BAB and more combat feats than a Fighter, more healing than a Cleric, or more spellcasting power than a Wizard or Sorcerer.
Kyramus: hmmm people have been changing things in any version. Just because I change something to add to this particular Ranger, doesn't make me right or wrong. Its just me making a more logical ranger.
On top of all that, even if the two points above weren't as much of an issue, you're still giving out more than you're taking away.
TWF and Ambidex are pretty much statistically the same as using a greatsword, which costs no feats, so taking them away is hardly an issue, because they're so damn weak... And they're only virtual feats, to boot. Same thing with spellcasting. I haven't seen a Ranger yet for whom spellcasting was an issue - in fact, most Rangers I've seen in play often couldn't afford to have a Wisdom score high enough to use higher level spells, or at least get them at levels low enough that they were still useful. (Mmm... can't wait for that Sleep and Cure Light Wounds spells at 8th level).
Kyramus: again, look at the spell list, then look at what a ranger could do with the spell list. animal friendship alone is way worth more than tracking or unarmed fighting ability.
In exchange, you're giving them tangible, solid benefits like more skill points (which are a huge bonus, with that skill list) or another good save.
Kyramus: i believe the ranger should be more of the wilderness scout more than just a regular fighter at 4+. Again that's my belief. skill points to actually use their skills isn't a bad thing.
If you'd like them to be self-sufficient in the wild, don't give them better unarmed combat ability than a monk... Give them, I don't know, the ability to make and use makeshift weapons, and create traps in natural settings. Throw in some concrete herbalism abilities. And whatever you do, don't give them a good Will save... Iron Will as a bonus feat would be more than enough.
Already stated the iron will above.
Makeshift weapons? give them the skill points to take craft weaponsmithing and that's pretty much what they will do.
Unarmed fighting vs Animal friendship. By level 10 the ranger's animal friendship total is 10 HD. let's see. What's the difference?
Unarmed fighting means the ranger himselfs fights his battles. with animal friendship, the ranger has a special attack animal if he so chooses or a whole slew of animal companions totalling 10hd to act as scouts and such.
I think this alone is more than satisfactory trade off. let's go further.
Rangers spell list starting at 4th level ranger.
1st-LEVEL RANGER SPELLS
Alarm Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Animal Friendship Gains permanent animal companions.
Delay Poison Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Detect Animals or Plants Detects species of animals or plants.
Detect Snares and Pits Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Entangle Plants entangle everyone in 40-ft.-radius circle.
Magic Fang One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 bonus to attack and damage.
Pass without Trace One subject/level leaves no tracks.
Read Magic Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resist Elements Ignores first 12 damage from one energy type each round.
Speak with Animals The caster can communicate with natural animals.
Summon Nature's Ally I Calls animal to fight for the caster.
Asides from animal friendship they have temporary combat personel from nature's ally!! can't be tracked? entangle people?
2nd-LEVEL RANGER SPELLS
Animal Messenger Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Cure Light Wounds Cures 1d8 +1/level damage (max +5).
Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law Reveals creatures, spells, or objects.
Hold Animal Holds one animal helpless; 1 round/level.
Protection from Elements Absorb 12 damage/level from one kind of energy.
Sleep Put 2d4 HD of creatures into comatose slumber.
Snare Creates a magical booby trap.
Speak with Plants The caster can talk to normal plants and plant creatures.
Summon Nature's Ally II Calls animal to fight for the caster.
hmm more combat friends, protection against elements?? minor curing ability.
3rd-LEVEL RANGER SPELLS
Control Plants Talk to and control plants & fungi.
Cure Moderate Wounds Cures 2d8+1/level damage (max +10).
Diminish Plants Reduces size or blights growth of normal plants.
Greater Magic Fang One natural weapon of subject creature gets +1 bonus to attack and damage per three caster levels (max +5).
Neutralize Poison Detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Plant Growth Grows vegetation, improves crops.
Remove Disease Cures all diseases affecting subject.
Summon Nature's Ally III Calls animal to fight for the caster.
Tree Shape The caster looks exactly like a tree for 1 hour/level.
Water Walk Subject treads on water as if solid.
more curing ability, control over plants, neutralize posion, make a thorn bush worse, more combat support, hide as a tree, and walk on water. Hmmm yeah I think that's better than unarmed fighting.
4th-LEVEL RANGER SPELLS
Cure Serious Wounds Cures 3d8 +1/level damage (max +15).
Freedom of Movement Subject moves normally despite impediments.
Nondetection Hides subject from divination, scrying.
Polymorph Self The caster assumes a new form.
Summon Nature's Ally IV Calls animal to fight for the caster.
Tree Stride Step from one tree to another far away.
Wind Wall
woooo more curing, freedom of movement, can't be detected, change shape, more combat support, limited dim door ability, and finally wind wall????
oh sure, Unarmed fighting is TOOOOO powerful to be used to replace 2 feats of two weapon fighting and ambidexterity as well as the spell capacity.
weigh it. I think you'll see where i'm coming from. and No i didn't post it to validate what I think. I posted to see clear critiques to point the strengths and weaknesses. I'm shown you my view of the class that I made vs the existing class. I believe in it's own way both are balanced.
