"You can't assume things"

[ExploderWizard]

I never liked that expression, "You can't assume things." About 90% of the time, the assumption is correct. The other 10% might make you feel stupid, though.

Not assuming things is a smart practice. Moving the curtain to see if there is anything beyond is not assumption, its exploration.

Assumption would be noting the curtain, not actually looking, then at some later point (perhaps after finding trouble later) running back into the room and diving through the curtain assuming that it hid a window.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

I've noticed it, too, but I like it, because it's funny, and often mirrors past experiences of my own.

Hunh, really? I don't feel like I post those THAT much... I can only recall three or four such topics.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Sounds like a stupid conversation to me.

A player is allowed to assume all they way. What a player is not allowed to do is argue with the DM when their assumption turns out to be false.

This can be something as minor as whether or not there is a chimney to the ouside on the fireplace they are or using, or as major as assuming that since you use a particular creature name that it will follow all the specs in the monster manual.

On the other hand the DM cannot be a dick about it either. If I become the epic kobold slaying ranger who has slaughtered the little yelping freaks by the thousands it would be rather dishonest for the DM to use my assuming agaisnt me and suddenly throw 30HD fiendish kobolds at me who just happen to look and act exactly like normal kobolds until they enter combat, unless he has a very very good reason.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Assuming is not metagaming. Sure it is if player has read the module beforehand and "assuming" is related to player knowledge for plot or monster abilities.

Based on prior knowledge from other threads I am getting feeling some players in group just don't like "her". They belittle her way too much.

I used to have one misogynistic a** in my old group long ago. He was 25 y. old at the time. Despite the character he always came up wtih some thing to ignore/belittle/being mean to female players. And when he got emotional reaction he grew all smug and superior. No he hasn't changed what I keep hearing from people. That was his attitude in RL too not just games, though he hid it better.

I hope that is not underlying case, because if it is your issues get even more weird them/him trying to push your buttons.

It might be some "old dm" issue too. Sometimes playing years dm vr. players game does that to people.

Some dm's forcing players describe everything exactly and getting their "hahaa" moments when players fail to do something/do something might also lead to this. Also often killer-dm-type games are norm.

My experience.

I kinda wonder why you still play with some of these guys. Well I know, sometimes known bad, is better than unknown. just by reading about these issues kinda tells me that either you enjoy the drama. Or you truly believe they can be better roleplayers/people. Don't bother. They don't want to change. After certain age cap I haven't seen singly roleplayer giving up bad habits (preferances) related to gaming, but they sometimes have gotten worse.

 

[Umbran]

Not assuming things is a smart practice. Moving the curtain to see if there is anything beyond is not assumption, its exploration.

I agree that checking behind the curtain is exploration, not metagaming.

But really, we assume things all the time. We assume that gravity keeps working. Barring special circumstances, we assume air will be around for our next breath. The universe is too darned big for us to operate without assumptions. We are hard-wired to assume for low-risk situations.

Which is not to say I won't laugh at the character who decides to jump through the curtains and out the "window" without looking, such that he rams his face into the solid oak door on the other side...

 

[howandwhy99]

I assume she is assuming that assumption is either bad or impossible.

I'm assuming bad for her sake.




Is her moving her PC an assumption it can move? Or that the floor will hold it up? Or swing her sword means it can swing?

 

[Odhanan]

OP: All I see is a massive logic failure on the player's part.

It really comes down to this: if a player's a moron and wants to stick to his guns being a moron, there's not much you can do about it. Play or play not with that person. If you play with that person, just overlook his occasional brain failures. If that becomes a problem to the point the guy isn't having fun, brings up issues which aren't issue, then my advice is to just not play with that person and move on.

 

[Agamon]

Meh, I have little else to post. They have plenty of good moments, but rarely do anything amazingly good enough to be worth posting. A lot of what I post is in reference to old groups of mine too, especially the worse things. The current group has its problems but I do like them a lot and the games are fun. They certainly aren't stupid or sucky, they're sometimes frustrating, but all people are like that.

And EN Worlders sometimes help me quickly see solutions that would have taken a while to think up myself. I've managed to fix a few problems before they got serious with the solutions I get by posting them here.

Also plenty of the responses are amusing or interesting enough to be worth making a topic.

Well, I, for one,have enjoyed the threads you've started. Like you say, helpful when possible, amusing if nothing else.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

1. theyre an oracle, they knew
2. remember those nasty curtains from the Tomb of Horrors?
3. last time I assumed anything it ate my character's cohort and half the party
4. the time before that it shot arrows and killed us all

assuming things is dangerous, but sometimes as DM, you have to allow 'a bit of slippage' meaning "and a mouse moved past the curtain and a tiny bit of light shines through" or something...the group I play with on the norm is all kick in the door, little thinking, so yeah...thats my two cents

 

[Janx]

I agree that checking behind the curtain is exploration, not metagaming.

But really, we assume things all the time. We assume that gravity keeps working. Barring special circumstances, we assume air will be around for our next breath. The universe is too darned big for us to operate without assumptions. We are hard-wired to assume for low-risk situations.

Which is not to say I won't laugh at the character who decides to jump through the curtains and out the "window" without looking, such that he rams his face into the solid oak door on the other side...

not only that, the game would devolve to 20 questions for every fact that a PC needs to verify every round. Is a monster in front of me? Am I still holding a weapon? Is my weapon still able to reach it? Do I still posess the skills to wield it?

The world tends to retain the same state as the last moment we observed it. Therefore, we assume that things will stay mostly the same, until such time as we discover a change.

It is not an assumption that the curtain hid a window. it's a guess. Technically, the Oracle didn't know for sure. But on the other hand, it didn't really matter. Because UNTIL somebody opens the curtain, it might as well be a window. it's Shroedinger's Window. If you want it to be a window behind the curtain, it is. Until such time as you directly observe it, and its natured becomes fixed in quantum reality.

Taking the anal-player less literally, the gamer sense of "don't assume anything" draws from killer-dm-paranoia style of gaming where everything in the game might be dangerous. Not literally questioning if the floor has turned into lava, etc.

However, even with this mindset, what difference does it matter when the Oracle says "hey guys, you wanted a window, there's one behind the curtain, duh!" Nothing has changed. You haven't brought in player knowledge that the PC wouldn't have equally deduced. The alleged window is still either safe or probably dangerous.

In point of fact, paranoid style gaming is more likely to be categorized as metagaming and violating the player/pc info gap. Because the PLAYER knows more about the risks and pitfalls than the PC who up until he started adventuring, has never known the world to be so cruel and capricious.