D&D 5E You can't necessarily go back

[Emerikol]

But I agree. It is a game and different strokes for different folks no doubt. But a lot of D&D that gets played these days is really for me a poor version of a board game. I'd really rather just play the superior board games out there if thats what I'm looking for. Same for mmos. If a campaign provides nothing an mmo couldn't provide then it's a big fail for me. I'd just play an mmo. And I have no issue with either board games or mmos.
Whoa, "poor version" and "big fail" and "superior board game"??????

Sadly, Seems that you cannot abide by your own words for even in a single post.

Whoa, "poor version" and "big fail" and "superior board game"??????

Sadly, Seems that you cannot abide by your own words for even in a single post.

You should read instead of kneejerk reacting. Note I said FOR ME. I went on to discuss my preferences. I said that FOR ME if an rpg offers nothing more than what a board game would offer then I'd rather just play games designed to be boardgames. They are superior at being boardgames. The same for MMOS. I want an rpg that offers something that sets it appart from those other types of games. Because FOR ME that is what roleplaying is all about.

If you bothered to think about it, you would realize that there was no judgment on other people or their preferences at all in my original post. But it is perfectly fine to have preferences of your own about the games you play.

 

[Hussar]

You should read instead of kneejerk reacting. Note I said FOR ME. I went on to discuss my preferences. I said that FOR ME if an rpg offers nothing more than what a board game would offer then I'd rather just play games designed to be boardgames. They are superior at being boardgames. The same for MMOS. I want an rpg that offers something that sets it appart from those other types of games. Because FOR ME that is what roleplaying is all about.

If you bothered to think about it, you would realize that there was no judgment on other people or their preferences at all in my original post. But it is perfectly fine to have preferences of your own about the games you play.

Ok, fair enough. I'm going to assume good faith on your part and this is how you really feel. Ok.

Now, can you explain how your criticism of 4e don't apply to 3e?

 

[Garthanos]

That's true that many magic items are iconic. I do not think, however, that if you were creating such a character in an rpg, you would create it with the signature item. Arthur did not have his sword until he pulled it out of a boulder.

'And had zero adventures anything like D&D prior to pulling it...

Elric got stormbringer in novel 1.... these were signature weapons.

 

[Emerikol]

Ok, fair enough. I'm going to assume good faith on your part and this is how you really feel. Ok.

Now, can you explain how your criticism of 4e don't apply to 3e?

I wasn't in this instance targeting an edition. I was merely saying that some groups play D&D in such a way that they might just as well be playing a board game or an mmo. It is more how they play the game than the particular edition. And I was saying that FOR ME, I would just rather play a boardgame as play D&D that way.

I have plenty of grievances with 4e don't get me wrong. But in this case I was speaking in the general case about groups playstyles and not making an attack in particular. And when I said these days, I am under the assumption that 3e,4e,and Pathfinder are being played a lot even though 4e is the latest edition.

I do think the game shop games while a nice introduction to the rules would never fulfill my desire for roleplaying. To me these are more wargame than campaign. But I'm glad if people enjoy them. I enjoy wargames too but I think D&D isn't such a good one.

 

[underfoot007ct]

I wasn't in this instance targeting an edition. I was merely saying that some groups play D&D in such a way that they might just as well be playing a board game or an mmo. It is more how they play the game than the particular edition. And I was saying that FOR ME, I would just rather play a boardgame as play D&D that way.

I have plenty of grievances with 4e don't get me wrong. But in this case I was speaking in the general case about groups playstyles and not making an attack in particular. And when I said these days, I am under the assumption that 3e,4e,and Pathfinder are being played a lot even though 4e is the latest edition.

I do think the game shop games while a nice introduction to the rules would never fulfill my desire for roleplaying. To me these are more wargame than campaign. But I'm glad if people enjoy them. I enjoy wargames too but I think D&D isn't such a good one.

But you are saying, people are playing D&D wrong, thus you are playing the correct way. Saying if they don't play your way, they should do something else., like a board game or MMO.

Why do you even care what they play in a game shop, if you are not playing.

D&D was a wargame in its very creation & evolution, so disliking its roots in fine on a personal level. That is just the history of the game.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I don't know about anyone else here but I can tell you that my group and I enjoy games the most where we aren't the center of the universe and our story comes to fruition after the game is over, not before it begins.

Our stories take shape from the decisions the characters make and the way the dice rolls, it all becomes a page in the big book of our adventure. Our DM usually creates a massive world and he let's us choose where we want to go and he will have a different scenario set up for each section. Let's say for instance we decide to go and visit the dwarves. Well we will get there only to find out that they are being attacked by frost giants and they need our help. There realm may be in danger but not the entire planet or even the whole continent for that matter.

Sometimes we will play in games that have a central plot and we get around to it when we are ready and there is no time clock ticking away.

Also, we don't write out what magic items we want ahead of time because we all enjoy the surprise of finding random items and the challenge comes from finding uses for those items even though they may not synergize with your character optimally.

This is the kind of system I hope Next gives us. We want to be able to play anywhere from fresh off the farm to born with a certain destiny or a combination of both.

 

[Emerikol]

But you are saying, people are playing D&D wrong, thus you are playing the correct way. Saying if they don't play your way, they should do something else., like a board game or MMO.

Why do you even care what they play in a game shop, if you are not playing.

D&D was a wargame in its very creation & evolution, so disliking its roots in fine on a personal level. That is just the history of the game.

No thats not what I'm saying. You seem insistant on being offended. I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong because there is no wrong objectively. I am saying that for me it is wrong. Meaning I do not like something. And I may not understand what someone gets out of a game but that doesn't mean I'm condemning them if they are having fun. You seem to be very intent on projecting some bias into my words that doesn't exist.

I do not dislike wargames. I don't think D&D is a very good wargame. I also think that roleplaying offers things a wargame does not provide. Thus if I want to wargame I find a game that does wargaming well. At least from my perspective because when choosing games thats all that matters for me. There is no judgment on anyone else except between your ears. I choose to play roleplaying games in a way that is impossible with a wargame or an mmo. I think there is something noteworthy and good about that which I value. Your own opinion may vary. I made no comment about anyone elses opinion. Nor did I make any value judgment on their fun. I merely stated my own preferences and why.

I find weekly game store D&D encounters events to be more wargame than roleplaying game. I think that is true because I put a high value on the differences between a roleplaying game and a wargame. So when I'm roleplaying I seek out situations where I can derive the full value from such an activity. All of that is how I view it and if you pay attention you'll see there is no comment on how anyone else chooses to use the game.

In fact I hope all types buy the game. I even hope people buy the game as a coffee table book. Because each time a game is purchased that helps D&D overall. I don't care if someone buys the game and uses it as a target for their darts. What other people do with the game I don't really give a hoot about. I expect if they like some aspect of D&D they will seek to see it included. That behavior is the same as my own. We all want a game we can enjoy.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No thats not what I'm saying. You seem insistant on being offended. I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong because there is no wrong objectively. I am saying that for me it is wrong.

That's rather a meaningless distinction. Sticking an "IMHO" on an offensive post doesn't take the offense away.

I expect if they like some aspect of D&D they will seek to see it included. That behavior is the same as my own. We all want a game we can enjoy.

Here's a thought. If you really just want inclusion, and to see the things you like, confine your posts to saying positive things about the stuff you like, rather than belittling the preferences of others as 'dissociated mechanics,' or 'board games not RPGs' or the like. Stop blasting the things from 4e that you don't want in 5e - as a DM, you'll always be able to remove them - and just talk up the bits you like and would like to see in 5e.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Stop blasting the things from 4e that you don't want in 5e - as a DM, you'll always be able to remove them - and just talk up the bits you like and would like to see in 5e.

Actually that's the best way handle things, it's called criticism. You mention the things that you thought were wrong so an effort can be made to either fix them or avoid them all together next time.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Actually that's the best way handle things, it's called criticism. You mention the things that you thought were wrong so an effort can be made to either fix them or avoid them all together next time.

I don't disagree. But it's an approach to improving on the final product, not to creating an all-inclusive product on the theory that the qualities of that product are all wholly subjective.

I don't believe that the qualities of an RPG are all wholly subjective, and I don't believe that the kind of all-inclusive appeal WotC is aiming for with 5e is possible. But, anyone who really does believe all that could reasonably content himself with just positive assertions about what he wants included, and refrain from negative ones since exclusion of 'bad' or 'wrong' elements from the game is nonsensical when bad and wrong are subjective.