You don't like the new edition? Tell me about it!
cwhs01 said:
It's not that wizards suck because they're no longer masters in the game or something. I never really had that problem in my game....they were always very vulnerable to any fighter or rogue in the game.
Fireball can be used *once* a day.
Meteor Swarm, a lvl 29 spell, does on average about 28 dmg on a failed save....against a lvl 29 or 30 character, that's not much at all. And it can be used *once* a day.
All of the wizard powers are basically blasting spells now. If you want to do anything except blow stuff up, you have to use rituals which take forever to cast, and are available to any character. The element of choice and planning, and doing things other than, well, blowing stuff up, has been taken away.
And forget about changing your spells each morning, to try something new. It's more like the sorcerer model...unless you retrain, you're basically stuck with your choice afterwards.
Animal companions are gone. Polymorph is gone. Druids, bards, monks, barbarians, and sorcerers are all gone.
Vastly reduced weapon and equipment list.
Overall, far less choice than in 3E. Frankly I had no idea that so much of the PHB was dominated by the classes.
Given that Paizo is supposed to be the smaller company, whereas WotC is the official maker of D&D, I didn't expect Pathfinder to look more professional than the new edition of D&D, but after opening the alpha file and looking at it again, that's exactly the impression I get.
I don't know what to say....except what I said in an earlier post....that I'm very disappointed. I've played all 3 editions, saw 4E at one of my players' homes, and now that I've seen it, it's the first time I don't even *want* the new edition as soon as it's available. It almost feels like I'd be wasting my money. It's kind of selfish, but I'm glad he got it rather than me...I'm fairly happy that I didn't preorder, at this point. I had been planning on going to the shop immediately after work on release day, browsing the books, and picking them up....but I don't think that's happening now.
Hopefully people have fun with it. But I kind of suspect there's going to be a fair group of people who preordered the game who are going to be rather disappointed, once the initial glee of reading the new edition wears off. As a consumer, it's not for me.
Banshee
Mustrum_Ridcully said:And 4E so far doesn't fail to be D&D for me. But it might very well fail for you or el-remmen at being D&D.
(And why am I posting this in the "anti 4E" thread? Because I want to force everyone to accept and admit that his understanding of D&D is not the only true form, damn it!)
I think this is a fair statement. From what I've seen at this point, I'm pretty sure it's not for me. I've generally been able to find at least some content in most D&D books that I feel interested in.....particularly core rulebooks.....but the new one doesn't seem to be for me...or my players.
Some other people will obviously differ, and great for them. From a purely selfish standpoint, I wish it was a game that interested me.
Banshee
Treebore
First Post
You know what I think 4E's real problem is? That 3E is not a "bad game". It has maybe 8 relatively big problems, and maybe 20 minor things needing a little fix here and there?
Which I strongly believe Pathfinder will prove, in spades.
I hope the Paizo crew delivers like they have been since Dragon and Dungeon were taken away from them. IF they do the "fixed" 3E PAthfinder is going to blow 4E out of the water. If Paizo actually makes 3E significantly easier to DM I could even be enticed back to DMing it. Which is a very doable goal. I have figured out a lot of ways, which are still backwards compatible to "official" 3E, just putting my Castles and Crusades house rules together.
4E is all shiny and new, but it has a 3 cylinder engine under the hood, with cheap extra's, goes no where fast, and still gets only 12 MPG.
I am glad 4E has pre sold so well. I also think Pathfinders schedule of release is about perfect. By the time the final version is released there will be a very significant number of unhappy D&D players looking for a good solid game being supported by a company doing cool stuff.
Fortunately they will be in luck. They will have Paizo, Green Ronin, Troll Lords, and others ready to deliver.
Which I strongly believe Pathfinder will prove, in spades.
I hope the Paizo crew delivers like they have been since Dragon and Dungeon were taken away from them. IF they do the "fixed" 3E PAthfinder is going to blow 4E out of the water. If Paizo actually makes 3E significantly easier to DM I could even be enticed back to DMing it. Which is a very doable goal. I have figured out a lot of ways, which are still backwards compatible to "official" 3E, just putting my Castles and Crusades house rules together.
4E is all shiny and new, but it has a 3 cylinder engine under the hood, with cheap extra's, goes no where fast, and still gets only 12 MPG.
I am glad 4E has pre sold so well. I also think Pathfinders schedule of release is about perfect. By the time the final version is released there will be a very significant number of unhappy D&D players looking for a good solid game being supported by a company doing cool stuff.
Fortunately they will be in luck. They will have Paizo, Green Ronin, Troll Lords, and others ready to deliver.
Treebore said:
Is Green Ronin continuing to support 3.x and/or True20? The only company I know made an announcement was Paizo....but I also haven't been following the boards as much lately.
You could be right. Hopefully sufficient numbers of people are willing to wait until 2009 to make Pathfinder viable.....I know several of my players have commented that the Paizo fixes seem to address several of the questions/concerns they had about 3E. If Pathfinder can make it easier to plan encounters etc. it looks like it's going to be an awesome game.
Banshee
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Turanil
First Post
They said so on their own website. M&M and True20 are rather successful it seems, with a lot of stuff already published for it. On the other hand, seeing the disaster 4e seems to be (StreamOfTheSky's post had my jaw drop, flabbergasted...), I guess that Green Ronin will probably carefully remain away from it. Maybe some people at Paizo had insights into what was designed with the new edition, and that it greatly enticed them into doing their own version of advanced 3.5.Banshee16 said:
Now I am really curious to know how 4e will fare on the long run. We will see. What I am looking forward, 6 months ahead of now, is to read about people who will actually have played the new edition a lot. I will be eager to read about people who will actually enjoy that kind of rules. To me, 4e really sounds like a minis board game, a type of game I definitely do not enjoy, but to each his own of course.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Remember everyone - this is a thread for those who want to rant about 4e. It isn't a thread which is inviting rebuttal's to those rants, so don't do it.
Thanks
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Sacrificial Lamb
First Post
I ran the 4e Quick-Start rules in Keep On The Shadowfell , and I didn't like it. I was painfully aware of the mechanics every minute of the game. An account of my experience is written here:
http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10663
http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10663
Calico_Jack73
First Post
DaveMage said:
PLEASE!!! That was my key gripe about 3.X Edition. In 2E I had all of the Wizards and Priests spell compendiums. The number of spells that 2E had totally blew away 3.X. I loved that the compendiums has spells that were helpful in the campaign sense but not necessarily in combat. Example: Bigby's Construction Crew. I had a wizard that supported himself during downtime by casting Bigby's Construction Crew for various building projects in the town he resided in.
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