You down with OCB?

[Mapache]

Yeah, the problem is there are no good choices.

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HTML5/JS in theory might be the best alternative, but it is only so in theory.

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The real truth is that unless you are some huge shop like Google that has limitless funding and can throw 500 engineers at a problem building complex web based apps is a terrible thing to have to try to do.

I was going to dispute your point about HTML5/JS, but since I'm one of those engineers Google throws at web UIs, my perspective may be a little different from companies like WotC.

 

[Viking Bastard]

It's remarkable what's possible with HTML and some choice JS libraries. I can't really see ancient browser worries as real for something that a) probably won't be used by the tech-phobic and b) used mostly at home, not in enterprises.

Anyway, chrome-frame it for the IE6/7 diehards.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I was going to dispute your point about HTML5/JS, but since I'm one of those engineers Google throws at web UIs, my perspective may be a little different from companies like WotC.

I think you can do a lot with HTML5/JS, and you could do a lot with HTML4. Heck I've built some very nice web apps, and I'm sure it IS possible to build something like CB, but contrast the basically hand crafting you're doing with something like Google's APIs where 90% of the work is really dealing with the quirks and oddities of HTML rendering, bizarre javascript oddities in 12 different browser variations, and building a page is an exercise in CSS tweaking. The alternative being WinForms or whatever the heck it is that is the latest flavor of UI design from Redmond. It is all point, click, drag, map attribute to widget, attach event handler, presto it works. Really, the whole secret is in the IDE and nobody but nobody has a UI layout tool that touches MSVS, not even close. I've been working for years in the Java Enterprise application space, I have every tool ever made for doing Java stuff, and the best UI tools are total crap by comparison.

It's remarkable what's possible with HTML and some choice JS libraries. I can't really see ancient browser worries as real for something that a) probably won't be used by the tech-phobic and b) used mostly at home, not in enterprises.

Anyway, chrome-frame it for the IE6/7 diehards.

Yeah, well, lets just say that a company like WotC is going to instantly say 'no thanks' when you tell them you're going to make it impossible for 30-50% of their existing DDI users to use the new tool you're coming out with. That's the reality. You have 20% of the people still on IE6 with XP, another 30% on IE7 (not really that much better, sure isn't doing anything 'HTML5'), etc. AND they now have to support IE6/7/8/9, FF3.x/4, Chrome versions, Safari versions, and that guy that insists on having it work on JuicyFruit HappyBrowser... Yeah, it's a nightmare. Been there, done that. No thanks. What do they gain either? The UI for CB is still unsuitable for a tablet or phone. You MIGHT kludge your way through using it with a tablet, but I doubt it would be fun. There would basically have to be a whole second UI for tablets, a third one for phones, and a fourth one for the guy that puts it up on his big TV in the game room and uses a remote.

 

[Mapache]

Really, the whole secret is in the IDE and nobody but nobody has a UI layout tool that touches MSVS, not even close.

Interface Builder is the most awesome thing ever, assuming you're doing Cocoa development for Mac OS X or iOS.

 

[moxcamel]

As some others have said, I no longer want to strangle small puppies or kick a nun after having used it. It still hasn't arrived, in the sense of feature-completeness, but unlike the previous tools I finally have faith that it *will* get there. Overall I'm really happy with the direction.

 

[SabreCat]

I'm impressed at their bug-fix rate. And it does have a few things that even the classic CB's modders haven't achieved, such as Superior Implements working for Hexblades.

Still unusable for me, though. I only play in one game that doesn't use house rules, and my character in that one doesn't work quite right in the online CB--double weapons don't give you the off-hand info correctly.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Interface Builder is the most awesome thing ever, assuming you're doing Cocoa development for Mac OS X or iOS.

Yeah, well, no objective C for me!

 

[Viking Bastard]

Yeah, well, lets just say that a company like WotC is going to instantly say 'no thanks' when you tell them you're going to make it impossible for 30-50% of their existing DDI users to use the new tool you're coming out with. That's the reality.[...]

IE6 usage is down to about 2% and that's counting enterprises (which isn't really a worry here) and IE7 usage is on steady decline (at around 10% now). That's the biggest browser hurdle. And it can be solved with Chrome Frame. Yeah, it's dirty and it's a plugin, but it works.

Sure, there are always gonna be browser quirks, but there are JS libraries for making that easier, as well. There are also UI kits, maybe not as good as Silverlight's or Xcode, but good enough.

They don't need to do an optimized version for phones or tablets, at least not from the start. Just as long as it works. And depending on the design -- on how flexible the layout is -- a tablet may not need a separate UI.

Using Silverlight is just short sighted and will probably bite them in the ass in the long run.

 

[Matt James]

One of the major fundamental principles behind the development of these products in Silverlight, is the fact that WotC already has on staff developers intimately familiar with it. Considering that Silverlight works on the two biggest operating systems, by and far, it was only rational that they would use it. Someone over at Hasbro and/or WotC (yes, they are different) did a cost-benefit analysis and determined that time, effort, and money would be saved by going this way.

If there comes a time when Silverlight completely implodes and dies a quick death, you can be assured that new plans will be implemented, and that this was also included in the risk assessment of the project. If it is a known risk (which it is), it has been accounted for in some fashion.

If one is assuming the project manager for these applications is completely oblivious to all-things technical, then there's nothing more to say. Someone on the Internet will always know the better answer, right? I recommend they start their own organization, as they would clearly be able to do a better job

 

[Balesir]

You have 20% of the people still on IE6 with XP, another 30% on IE7 (not really that much better, sure isn't doing anything 'HTML5'), etc. AND they now have to support IE6/7/8/9, FF3.x/4, Chrome versions, Safari versions, and that guy that insists on having it work on JuicyFruit HappyBrowser... Yeah, it's a nightmare. Been there, done that. No thanks. What do they gain either? The UI for CB is still unsuitable for a tablet or phone. You MIGHT kludge your way through using it with a tablet, but I doubt it would be fun. There would basically have to be a whole second UI for tablets, a third one for phones, and a fourth one for the guy that puts it up on his big TV in the game room and uses a remote.

Or they could, you know, just write an offline version. Oh, but wait - then they wouldn't have their fans by the short and curlies, so it wouldn't be half as much fun, would it?